This week on the If You Market podcast we speak with Kelley Noblet of Skillsoft about Content Marketing and how to make sure it is fueling demand generation. Kelley goes over the process from content concept generation, through creation, and all the way to distribution.
Kelley Noblet is responsible for the strategy and execution of content marketing for Skillsoft in the North American region. Prior to her role in content marketing, Kelley spent over 10 years managing demand generation programs. Her background in demand generation gave Kelley an understanding of the complex content needs for potential buyers, customers and sales professionals. Kelley holds a bachelor’s degree in English and Spanish from the University of Connecticut, and a master’s degree in Integrated Marketing Communication from Emerson College. Kelley lives in southern NH with her husband and two daughters.
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Transcript:
00:10
thank you for listening to the if you
00:12
market podcast I’m your host sky Cassidy
00:15
and the baddest baddest ass PR person in
00:20
the land Carla Jo Helms and coast of the
00:23
Effie market podcast is here with us
00:24
that’s me and I’m lovely too and today
00:30
we’ll be talking about content marketing
00:32
and using content marketing to fuel
00:35
demand generation with Kelly Noblet
00:37
Kelly’s responsible for the strategy and
00:40
execution of content marketing for
00:42
SkillSoft
00:43
in the North American region before
00:45
taking on content marketing Kelly spent
00:47
10 years managing demand generation
00:49
programs and that gave her an
00:51
understanding of the complex content
00:53
needs for potential buyers Kelly we are
00:57
super thrilled to have you on today
00:58
thanks for having me Skye thrilled to be
01:00
here so Before we jump headlong into
01:04
content marketing and demand generation
01:07
let’s talk a little bit about yourself
01:09
what could you know what can you tell us
01:10
what do you want people to know about
01:11
you well let’s see I grew up in the
01:15
Massachusetts suburbs and I went to
01:17
college at University of Connecticut and
01:20
kind of became interested in marketing
01:23
because I always liked to write I wasn’t
01:26
a super creative writer like I wasn’t
01:28
sitting around writing stories all day
01:30
but I learned from a young age that I
01:33
was good at communicating and wanted to
01:37
try to polish that skill and and and
01:39
transfer it to professional life so
01:41
that’s kind of what kind of got me in
01:43
the door with marketing was trying to
01:45
see how I could use writing and turn
01:47
that into out earning a living that you
01:50
know wasn’t being a newspaper publisher
01:52
or you know a novelist if you will
01:56
nice and then b2b versus b2c was there
01:59
any active decision on what way to go
02:03
there did you just kind of end up on one
02:05
side sort of accidental you know in
02:08
graduate school we definitely learned
02:10
about both approaches and
02:13
just so happens that my first job out of
02:15
college was a b2b environment and that’s
02:17
kind of the direction I’ve been going in
02:19
since then I guess it isn’t like when
02:22
you’re in high school and thinking maybe
02:23
I want to go into marketing I think mmm
02:25
b2b or b2c if it doesn’t quite get
02:30
thrown around and if people don’t make
02:31
those distinctions until until later in
02:33
your career yeah definitely
02:36
so SkillSoft can you tell us a little
02:37
bit about what SkillSoft
02:39
does and kind of what your role there is
02:41
SkillSoft is a leading learning company
02:44
they make courseware that helps people
02:47
learn new skills like compliance or new
02:51
IT skills or how to you know achieve
02:53
leadership skills and well what my
02:57
day-to-day there is I manage the the
02:59
content marketing function so I make
03:02
sure that we have a variety of thought
03:06
leadership like content such as white
03:09
papers articles listicles infographics
03:13
that are demand gen team can use to
03:16
attract new business and also to help
03:20
support our customers and sales teams
03:23
when they are out there talking to
03:25
prospective buyers can you give just an
03:27
average day for you it’s madness
03:30
actually writing writing writing well
03:34
and you wouldn’t believe you know the
03:38
process it is to get something published
03:40
and you know kind of what it takes to
03:42
get there so every day is different
03:44
which I like because I think if every
03:46
day were the same I would be bored you
03:50
know it ranges from King edits to
03:52
something to sitting in a meeting with
03:54
somebody trying to come up with a
03:56
strategy for a particular product line
04:00
it’s it’s looking at something that we
04:04
have and trying to figure out a
04:06
different way to tell that story it’s
04:09
certainly a lot of different things and
04:10
it’s a lot of collaboration with
04:11
different members of the company which I
04:14
like because I like talking to people
04:16
and I like meeting new people and
04:17
hearing different perspectives and
04:19
whatnot so that’s one thing about the
04:21
job that’s really interesting and
04:24
exciting you know from a higher level
04:26
content mark
04:27
is on my end is making sure that we have
04:30
a healthy editorial that we have a
04:32
strategy for the year that we’re not
04:33
just creating things you know on a whim
04:37
you know it’s like we are looking at our
04:39
are what we want to save for the year
04:41
and trying to create content that aligns
04:44
with that and it’s my job to kind of get
04:46
that conversation started and it
04:48
requires a lot of buy-in with a lot of
04:50
different people within the organization
04:52
you know the executive team certainly
04:55
our our leaders that are at the top are
04:57
very much interested in what we’re going
05:00
out there with so they want to weigh in
05:02
on that and then all our subject matter
05:03
experts that manage product functions
05:06
have a point of view because they’re an
05:08
expert on their field so we want to
05:09
consult them and find out what it is
05:12
that is the hot hot button issue that we
05:15
should be talking about so you’re not
05:17
given a hey create this content thing
05:19
really you’re you’re coming up like an
05:22
outside ad agency or something almost
05:23
with with the overall plan and the
05:26
concepts and and then having to go and
05:28
sell it to your executives yes and so
05:31
some of the nitty-gritty like oh we’re
05:33
going to have 2.5 infographics on this
05:36
topic don’t go to the executive it’s at
05:38
that level we’re talking about the theme
05:41
for the years so there’s strategy and
05:43
then you work with the other teams to
05:45
build out the tactical yeah but I
05:47
I miss the catalyst for the strategy and
05:49
you know people come to me with ideas
05:51
but it was my job to kind of get the the
05:55
process started for how are we gonna go
05:57
to market you know I go to meetings
05:59
other things and I hear ideas and then I
06:01
present them and say hey I think we
06:03
should try to do it this way and then I
06:04
get you know the feedback from the
06:07
executive leaders and then we you know
06:10
course-correct accordingly and you know
06:12
we do this throughout the year too
06:13
because at the beginning of the year you
06:15
might think one way and then towards the
06:17
end of the year things might change so
06:19
we’re agile and can pivot when when
06:23
necessary constantly adjusting yeah
06:24
exactly yeah sometimes just with the
06:27
news – I suppose if there’s something
06:29
that’s relevant to your to your business
06:32
you don’t want to ignore it yeah
06:34
absolutely and you know that tends to be
06:37
more on the PR side for sure
06:41
and and I definitely support that
06:43
function what’s with content that but
06:46
certainly like if there’s a big news
06:48
item that kind of tends to be more on
06:51
that and because I’m on my end I’m doing
06:54
you know longer form content most of the
06:57
time and certainly we if you know we had
07:00
a plan for the year and we said oh in q4
07:02
we’re gonna create X Y Z and then the
07:05
news goes one direction that might
07:07
influence how we spin a particular topic
07:09
for sure so you know it’s like we always
07:11
have to kind of have our eyes open ears
07:13
open for what’s changing in the world
07:14
right right well since we’re getting up
07:17
we’re diving into it already I’d like to
07:18
dive into like no content generation
07:22
demand generation and kind of for
07:26
audiences and then how do you go about
07:28
it cuz I think you already talking about
07:30
that already oh yeah can you give us an
07:32
overview of what that is and and what
07:34
the kind of the connection I guess to
07:36
kick things off well content fuels
07:38
demand generation you can’t go out there
07:40
and try to get people to buy your
07:42
product if you don’t have something of
07:44
value to offer them you know nowadays
07:45
people are making their decisions about
07:48
where they want to buy and what they’re
07:50
interested in before they’ve spoken to
07:52
someone so if you don’t have great
07:55
thought leadership out there where
07:56
people can find it then you’re missing
07:58
out because the you know your competitor
08:00
does and you know they’re out there
08:03
reading from a competitor’s website
08:05
instead of getting what they need
08:06
through through your channels so that’s
08:09
one thing you know what I try to do is I
08:12
is I’m aware of what our demand
08:15
generation team is doing I’m aware of
08:17
their budget and you know what sort of
08:19
placements they’re going for and so when
08:21
I’m thinking about the content strategy
08:23
I’m thinking about content that will
08:25
perform well in the channels that that
08:28
team is using you know with the
08:30
advertising channels that they’re using
08:31
and you know the internal campaigns that
08:34
they might be doing within the database
08:37
that we have so basically you know they
08:40
can’t go and do an email blast if they
08:42
don’t have something to draw people to
08:45
so that’s where I come in I support that
08:48
so that that team has a healthy campaign
08:51
pipeline in place with with interesting
08:54
content to
08:55
her but it sounds like what you’re
08:56
starting from is a strategy to create
09:00
demand it’s not just a content strategy
09:02
it’s very different like it is to create
09:04
demand so it’s more tied to sales is
09:07
that what I’m hearing yeah so I mean I’m
09:10
supposed to be hand in glove with the
09:11
demand generation team so they do have
09:13
their own strategy they have their own
09:15
plan and then I knowing what that is
09:18
that helps me come up with mine you know
09:21
what I start at the top I think about
09:23
what our corporate themes are gonna be
09:25
for the year and once those are blessed
09:27
and decided then you know it’s a very
09:29
much a collaboration with that team
09:31
about the different angles that we think
09:33
might perform well on their end and then
09:37
we use that to start creating tactical
09:40
pieces where we actually say okay well
09:42
we know we’re going to talk about
09:43
leadership and we’re going to talk about
09:46
high potential leadership and this is a
09:48
particular paper that we’re going to
09:50
create and this is kind of the date time
09:52
frame that were you going to have it
09:53
done so that when they they plan they
09:55
know you know what to expect that sort
09:57
of thing can you give an example bare
10:01
within within SkillSoft of of that
10:03
process I mean we’re kind of working on
10:05
hypotheticals right now but to really
10:07
cement it for people maybe something
10:09
three give us a real-life scenario well
10:12
so I’m sure that other businesses kind
10:15
of follow this same kind of idea but you
10:17
know say the demand generation team is
10:20
told they have a budget of I’m just
10:22
gonna make it up say they have $100,000
10:24
to spend and they know they’re going to
10:26
be spending most of it on advertising
10:29
placements and you know some of the
10:31
advertising placements are targeting
10:34
executives and some of them are
10:36
targeting managers that sort of thing me
10:39
with that knowledge it might it might
10:42
spark me to say okay you know we have
10:44
this particular white paper that is a
10:47
topic that would interest both people
10:48
but what you might want to do is I you
10:53
know take that white paper instead of
10:55
having you know two different white
10:57
papers which are pretty likely and
11:00
time-consuming to create is taking one
11:02
that could potentially have broad appeal
11:04
and then positioning it in a way that
11:07
would appeal to
11:08
their audience so you know you might
11:10
present it in a slant that speaks to the
11:13
executive and an email so that they
11:15
would open it you know it’s like empower
11:17
your team or give your team the tools
11:19
they need to you know have a productive
11:21
time or whatnot versus when you’re
11:24
talking to the manager it might be make
11:26
your life make your life easier by
11:29
making sure that you have the skills
11:31
needed to do your job you know so it
11:33
depends on who the who the audience is
11:36
so you’ll make several versions of the
11:38
same creative kind of the same well it
11:42
depends so like it might be that they
11:44
simply just position it differently when
11:46
they are doing their writing so you know
11:49
in their ad they might position it with
11:52
that person in mind and still offer the
11:54
same piece of content you’re saying make
11:56
it for the different Publix or Target or
11:58
there’s different voices so this is all
12:01
part of the strategy of different pieces
12:03
of who’s it going to and having in
12:06
content but then you have to rewrite it
12:08
for the different voices yeah and well
12:10
what I’m saying is like though they
12:12
advertisements or the emails might be
12:14
written for the different voice and that
12:16
the paper might be brought right that it
12:18
appeals them if it’s extreme it might
12:21
warrant a slight edit and offering the
12:23
same paper but with a with a slightly
12:25
different spin for that for that
12:27
particular audience or offering a
12:29
derivative piece from that from that
12:33
piece of content that might be more
12:35
appealing may be a longer form for
12:38
somebody that’s of executive level and
12:40
something more short and to the point
12:42
like ten ways you can optimize your blah
12:45
blah blah to the person that’s actually
12:47
doing the work directly so it just
12:49
depends on the situation but that’s why
12:51
the partnership between content and
12:54
demand generation is important because
12:56
if the content is out there creating in
12:58
a vacuum and as an understanding how the
13:01
demand generation team is trying to work
13:03
and who they’re going after it doesn’t
13:05
work you know you have to kind of be on
13:07
the same page about what what’s needed
13:09
so that you don’t you don’t want to miss
13:11
that handoff between that department
13:12
basically so content really needs to be
13:15
focused on helping generate leads we’re
13:20
talking about demand generation but it
13:21
seems like there’s a hand
13:22
different things content can do I’ve got
13:27
you know branding thought leadership it
13:29
can be informational which is probably
13:31
farther down the pipeline maybe yes
13:33
certainly like content has to support
13:35
all stages of the buying cycle so you
13:37
know in my case because I part of my
13:41
particular role is to work closely with
13:43
demands and there might be cases where a
13:45
company has a really large content
13:47
department and they have some people
13:49
paired with demand gen and some people
13:51
paired with public relations it just
13:53
depends I guess on how the organization
13:55
Navy structure and who’s the person that
13:58
coordinates all of those messages
13:59
because that’s like can be very separate
14:02
silos unless you have somebody doing
14:05
that well you so on my and helping
14:08
establish that common theme and strategy
14:11
it gets published in a place where the
14:14
whole entire marketing team can
14:16
collaborate so they have access to that
14:19
and then people on the on the various
14:21
teams the leaders of those teams have
14:23
access to that framework and then they
14:26
adapt to the framework according to
14:28
their discipline so the person that’s
14:30
the overseas PR at our company knows
14:33
what the theme is knows what the hooks
14:35
are and uses that when making decisions
14:39
on behalf of that function so you know
14:41
we don’t we empower people to do their
14:43
job we don’t tell people this is how you
14:47
have to have to say it you know we have
14:50
some positioning guidelines you can be
14:52
creative based off of those positioning
14:54
guidelines yeah and you know internally
14:57
too we have people that if you know a
15:00
particular owner of a product would have
15:02
a positioning guide that they would
15:03
produce I would not produce that and
15:05
they would you know give people that
15:09
guideline so that they could go ahead
15:11
and you know do what they need to do in
15:14
their job so but everybody’s different
15:16
you know that in our case we try to put
15:19
the tools out there so that people can
15:21
work accordingly so it seems like the
15:24
first the first stage we’ve talked a bit
15:27
about it is working with the demand gen
15:29
team to make sure you’re creating the
15:30
right content you’re creating what’s
15:32
going to help them generate leads
15:34
basically yeah
15:35
and there’s a lot of different types of
15:37
content I mean you remember mentioned
15:39
like a listicle like the top ten types
15:41
of things there’s more content that
15:44
would be informational there’s I mean
15:47
there’s all different types of things
15:50
that you can create videos and all kinds
15:53
of stuff so if you kind of figure out
15:55
what you want to create with that and
15:58
you know are you going to make
16:00
infographics all that kind of stuff then
16:03
you need to actually create it can we
16:05
talk about the creation process itself a
16:07
little bit um you know what kind of
16:09
tools you guys use there how you how you
16:12
create these the content pieces yeah the
16:16
the creation process can be madness and
16:18
highly variable because we’re relying on
16:21
humans and and trying to get people to
16:25
you know respond in the timely manner
16:27
but you know things happen people travel
16:29
people get sick people go on vacation so
16:31
trying to keep a disciplined timeline
16:34
for editorial review is always a
16:36
challenge and I’m sure that that’s a
16:38
challenge for many companies internally
16:42
one of our tools that we like to use is
16:44
is smartsheet that’s how we stay
16:47
organized and so smartsheet is our way
16:50
of understanding what’s in production
16:53
and the status it’s a way for people to
16:56
make a request because I come up with
17:00
ideas for the year but other people have
17:02
lots of great ideas because they’re very
17:05
much in the weeds with their own area of
17:07
expertise so they might know something I
17:09
certainly am not tuned to and they’ll
17:11
come to me and say we need to have we
17:13
need to be talking about this because
17:15
this is very important it falls under
17:17
this corporate theme and so that might
17:19
be requested through that tool and then
17:22
progress and whatnot can be tracked
17:24
using that tool we have an intranet
17:28
where we keep our inventory of content
17:31
so selective things are on the website
17:34
the website is not a repository you know
17:37
we have a web team that manages that and
17:39
decides you know how things offers might
17:42
be structured on the website but
17:44
internally you know we have an intranet
17:47
destination which which
17:48
point where we can access pieces of
17:52
content that may not be accessible via
17:54
the website finished in progress all
17:57
kinds of stages that kind of stuff
17:59
well definitely finished things that are
18:03
in progress would be shared with those
18:05
that are part of the editing process so
18:07
you know if there’s a subject matter
18:08
expert that is the author of the piece
18:10
then the editing would be back and forth
18:12
with that person you know would be
18:15
available to the organization until it
18:17
was approved and and designed and ready
18:20
to go so you know that’s just one tool
18:23
that we use SharePoint and smartsheet
18:26
we don’t have I’m sure bigger
18:28
organizations might have a content
18:31
creation tool you know we don’t have
18:33
that at our company but I’m sure that
18:36
bigger organizations might use something
18:39
like that to disperse content and to
18:43
manage the creation portion right so you
18:47
come up with the concept you’ve worked
18:49
with the with the demand generation team
18:52
on that you you get all the best ideas
18:54
from all your people then the actual
18:57
creation you have the copywriting the
18:59
graphic design you know depending on
19:01
what type of creative it is you need all
19:04
that expertise do you typically do that
19:07
in-house do you outsource some of it can
19:11
you speak to that yeah so you know we
19:14
are hoping to grow but you know for for
19:17
the time being the way we operate is me
19:20
managing the content and doing some of
19:23
the writing and then also relying on
19:25
external freelancers or contract
19:27
employees to do the writing so some
19:31
things decided and we have an outline
19:33
and we have buy-in from the the expert
19:36
then we have some people that we can
19:38
give the work to to help flush it out
19:41
and you know support the work with
19:44
research and whatnot and then it will go
19:45
back to myself and I am always looking
19:48
at the the piece of content before it
19:51
then goes back to the team of people for
19:54
review and so then once everything is
19:57
approved and ready to go then we move
20:01
that I’m
20:02
the one that would move it along well
20:04
you the one that looks at it and shreds
20:05
it up and throws it in the air and
20:07
screams at everybody to do better no and
20:13
certainly when working with outside
20:15
people they may not realize something
20:17
that I know because I was in a meeting
20:20
or because I just know how we present
20:22
something so I’ll catch things so that
20:24
when it goes back to the expert
20:27
internally that they see it in the best
20:29
possible shape so you know that’s kind
20:32
of our process and then what I what I
20:36
typically do is I try to get everything
20:39
blessed and approved before it goes to
20:40
graphic because that’s a best practice a
20:42
graphic designer never wants to make
20:44
multiple multiple changes based on
20:47
changes in layout it happens but like
20:49
we’re extensive changes it’s just not an
20:52
efficient use of time so you know it
20:55
goes to the graphic designer when it is
20:57
approved and ready to go and then that
21:00
person does their beautiful graphical
21:02
magic and I give it one last once-over
21:05
and then that person takes care of
21:07
publishing it so that internal
21:09
individuals can use it and and then it
21:12
can you know if it is applicable it will
21:14
go on the website and the demand gen
21:16
team can make use of it so so you
21:19
repurpose it in as many different places
21:21
and you know I guess sizes and shapes as
21:24
possible and then make available to the
21:25
team basically yeah you know it’s
21:27
efficient if you’re spending so much
21:29
time creating a research document
21:32
you know white paper or a research
21:34
report or something of value maybe you
21:36
did a study and you’re publishing
21:39
interesting finding and it took you know
21:43
months to do the study and then a couple
21:45
months to publish the white paper you
21:47
don’t want to just use it one time and
21:49
let it go you want to think about that
21:51
paper and how you can use it and I think
21:53
it influences us you know I don’t want
21:56
to spend months of my time creating
21:58
something that isn’t going to get a lot
22:00
of mileage so when I’m looking at
22:02
something I’m thinking about the
22:03
potential for derivative work could we
22:05
you know make this into a shorter form
22:07
thing could we take this and turn it
22:10
into an article or could we take this
22:12
and ask the person that was the author
22:14
to
22:16
simplify and and be a blogger on the
22:19
company blog you know it’s all those
22:22
things are taken into consideration and
22:24
I’m sure I’m sure that’s a practice that
22:26
a lot of companies try to follow because
22:28
creating content is not free even though
22:31
I’m you know we might be able to produce
22:34
things without freelance support and
22:36
budget that doesn’t mean it’s free
22:38
because there’s time time and talent you
22:41
know when you’re using me to do
22:42
something that’s still costing money
22:45
yeah how much content you actually put
22:47
out per year per month do you have a
22:50
mount of words or deliverables or how
22:53
many white papers or then email messages
22:55
to back it up or how much do you
22:57
actually generate that’s something that
22:59
we’re working towards you know I’ve been
23:02
trying to come up with the science for
23:05
how much we can produce you know given
23:09
the number of resources we have
23:11
available to us there isn’t really a
23:13
magic number I would think that it
23:15
really is what is it for your company do
23:18
you know now or I think we’re still
23:20
trying to figure out our best practices
23:21
content marketing as it as its own
23:24
function is kind of new at our company
23:26
before it was sort of adopted by many
23:29
different individuals members of the
23:31
demand Gentry members of product and it
23:34
wasn’t under a particular owner like it
23:37
is now so we’re still trying to figure
23:38
that out I think you in order to make a
23:42
determination about what’s appropriate
23:44
for content you have to think about what
23:46
are we doing what are we doing for the
23:47
year how are we going to use it how many
23:49
different programs are we doing what’s
23:52
the budget with what sort of people do
23:54
you have to create it because it
23:56
wouldn’t make sense if you had the money
23:58
just to create content for the sake of
24:01
creating content if you made 50 white
24:03
papers for the year there are 52 weeks
24:05
in a year so really it’s like you need
24:08
one yeah that’s a lot of content when
24:10
you do a white paper how much do you
24:15
actually use it like typically do you do
24:19
you have an email marketing campaign
24:20
that goes with it do you have a blog
24:22
campaign a social media campaign like
24:25
all of those do you come up with its own
24:27
campaign for a white paper to make sure
24:29
that you can utilize the most out of it
24:32
um actually yeah so from a performance
24:36
standpoint we track by the asset so we
24:38
can see what performs and so it’s
24:41
fortunately it’s not my responsibility
24:42
to come up with all the programs it’s by
24:45
responsibility to kind of know what
24:47
people need and then create the content
24:50
for them but each owner you know will
24:52
make use of a white paper in their own
24:55
way you know certainly our demand gen
24:57
team would take a white paper and use it
24:59
multiple times over the course of
25:02
several months in their advertising
25:04
campaigns and also campaigns that might
25:07
target the database and if it’s a really
25:08
good piece of content the salespeople
25:11
would speak to it and you know as
25:13
they’re having conversations with
25:14
prospective buyers they might be sharing
25:17
that piece of content with them right
25:19
well I know good content and good
25:20
content collateral can be utilized for
25:24
years oh yeah sometimes tweaks you know
25:27
because it does speak the issues that
25:31
you know industries and you know
25:34
public’s are experiencing you know what
25:36
caused the affluence can continue to
25:38
cause it oh absolutely
25:40
for sure only I’ve got a question for
25:42
you to think on here I want to jump to
25:45
break but before we do that I want to
25:48
pose a question for you you think it
25:49
over during the break
25:51
what’s the basics that people need to
25:54
come to the table with so for example if
25:56
you’re gonna write two blog posts in a
25:58
year don’t bother it’s a waste of time
26:01
if you’re gonna create a white paper
26:03
that’s the general information doc on
26:05
your company well that one thing is
26:07
useful and and like Carl Joe was just
26:10
saying you can use it for a long time as
26:12
well so if you could think of kind of
26:14
the starting from scratch what are the
26:17
first things they should focus on to get
26:19
the bare minimum kind of in place and
26:22
maintain we’ll talk about that after the
26:24
break sounds good
26:29
hey this is Patrick McFadden founder at
26:32
indispensable marketing if you’re a
26:34
professional service provider or a b2b
26:37
business owner and you’re struggling to
26:40
attract your best clients and also
26:42
charge a premium for your service I
26:45
think you should really check out our
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26:49
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free consultation button hi we’re back
27:00
from the break this is Skye Cassidy with
27:02
the if you market podcast I’ve got Carla
27:04
Joe Helms hi guys and Kelly Noblet here
27:06
with me we’re talking about content
27:09
marketing to fuel demand generation
27:11
Kelly right before the break I threw you
27:13
a question about kind of the the
27:15
bare-bones must have content for people
27:19
or what they should start out with to
27:21
get the most bang for their buck can you
27:23
speak to that
27:23
sure sky so I I think the the bare-bones
27:27
content concept is to think about the
27:30
stages of the buying cycle you know as
27:32
the the top of the funnel middle of the
27:35
funnel and bottom of the funnel so if
27:38
you have a lot of top of the funnel
27:40
content you know things that are more
27:42
broad and thought leadership in nature
27:44
that attract people and then you have
27:46
nothing else to give them nothing to
27:48
kind of take them along the path and
27:51
that’s that’s a problem so thinking
27:53
about things that support them midway in
27:56
their buying journey so baby
27:58
good examples of things that are mid
28:00
funnel are our video assets or
28:03
calculator tools or comparisons or you
28:09
said listicles which is a very
28:11
interesting term not everybody would
28:13
know that but like a listicle would be
28:15
part of that right like a Content piece
28:17
that’s just a list of things it could be
28:19
yeah so generally the way I think of a
28:22
listicle it’s a one or two page or
28:24
usually has a snazzy title something
28:27
like you know five ways you can it’s
28:30
like prove your business by doing X Y Z
28:33
like it’s a it’s almost I think of a
28:35
PETA article or something like that and
28:37
things not to do to write your content
28:40
right kind of five five things okay
28:42
before dinner yeah something something
28:47
where you have to be somewhat
28:48
knowledgeable about a particular topic
28:50
Kelly between if you’re gonna have a
28:52
list I mean where would you land in
28:54
between saying one way to or saying a
28:56
hundred ways to like do you find when
28:59
creating a list is their magic number do
29:01
you just want to do however many things
29:03
there is in that category I think you
29:06
want to keep it manageable I would say
29:08
like you know 10 or 12 is sort of the
29:10
maximum but having three to five maybe
29:12
five the top five things you could do
29:15
it’s good because what I think people
29:17
have a short attention span and what
29:19
they want is actionable advice that can
29:21
help them solve a problem immediately so
29:23
if you if you eliminate it to you know
29:25
the top five things you need to do then
29:28
that might be appealing to someone
29:29
that’s trying to you know solve
29:33
something specific I remember saw one a
29:35
while back and I maybe it worked just
29:37
because of the bizarre nature of it but
29:40
it was something like 78 ways to and as
29:42
I said how many things can you once you
29:51
get into the hide you know maybe like a
29:54
100 though I want to open it just to see
29:57
how did you possibly come up with that
29:59
many ideas yeah that would be you you
30:02
question I have a question for for our
30:06
readers so we’ve been talking about a
30:07
high level stuff and stuff that you’re
30:09
doing and you know I’m thinking like
30:11
they are our listeners right so what
30:14
would be the like if someone was going
30:17
to develop a content strategy around
30:19
something for demand Jen right you said
30:22
the different the different funnels of
30:24
the buying cycle right what would be a
30:27
good like people always want well how
30:29
many pieces do I need for this cycle and
30:31
how many do I need for that cycle and I
30:33
know it’s different for every company
30:35
but what is something that they could do
30:37
like for the first section of the buying
30:40
cycle but they need a white papers is
30:42
they didn’t need an email campaign to
30:43
follow up with that blogs to go with it
30:46
possibly a newsletter you know what are
30:49
the basic pieces that are like the
30:52
staples that people need to think about
30:54
with demand Jen
30:56
well I would say if you were a new
30:58
business and you’d never done anything
31:00
before and you had very limited budget
31:03
and limited team I think you would start
31:05
with maybe one idea for the quarter and
31:07
maybe you have one tile you piece of
31:12
thought leadership that is you know a
31:17
topic that you think will resonate with
31:19
your audience and you I you know my
31:24
interpretation of something that’s high
31:26
top of the funnel is that it’s usually
31:29
broad it could be a research report
31:31
maybe you’ve done your own research or
31:33
maybe you’ve licensed a research report
31:35
or you’ve done a white paper that has a
31:37
lot of third-party research to back up
31:40
claims and then you’d want to have
31:44
assets that are cut somewhere in the
31:46
middle maybe you take that and you make
31:48
a listicle or you do a you know some
31:52
sort of assessment where a person or a
31:57
company could look at where they are and
31:59
you know with respect to a particular
32:02
business problem they’re solving and and
32:04
try to see where they are you know
32:07
compared to their peers sort of thing
32:09
and then you want to have things that
32:12
support the later stages the buying
32:14
cycle if you have somebody that has done
32:16
a lot of research and has already made
32:17
up their mind they you know they’re
32:19
between you and two other brands or
32:21
something like that yeah
32:22
you can’t not help them close the deal
32:26
there that’s where you want to have your
32:27
references your case studies the actual
32:31
product information which I don’t manage
32:33
but you know you want to have brochures
32:36
or or at least some sort of fact sheet
32:38
or place where someone can go to
32:40
understand what it is that they would be
32:42
buying if they were to go you know part
32:45
your with your business so those are the
32:47
bare-bones things so having you know one
32:50
piece of content that you repurpose in
32:53
many ways in a quarter is certainly the
32:56
bare bones I like that so so let me just
32:59
see if I’m getting back with you here so
33:01
the first phase it’s like you’re giving
33:03
them enough content to help them make
33:05
the decision so you have a white paper
33:07
you could follow it up with a
33:09
you could follow up with an assessment
33:11
this against that you know helping them
33:13
make the decision but then when you get
33:15
into the second phase let’s just say and
33:19
this is all hypothetical phases but this
33:21
is someone who okay there between you
33:23
and two others
33:24
right so they move into that particular
33:26
funnel well this would be content based
33:29
off of helping them make the decision
33:32
between the others you know the fact
33:34
sheet the brochures of exactly what they
33:36
would be buying the references case
33:39
studies right yep and so you know that
33:42
stage tends to be closely handled with
33:46
wood sales you know when people are that
33:48
interested sales are having
33:49
conversations there on site they’re
33:52
sharing that feedback certainly you know
33:54
telling you the magical way to go to
33:56
market that’s good that’s a little tough
33:59
because that is very variable depending
34:02
on what your businesses and what you’re
34:03
trying to achieve what your goals are
34:05
your budget the amount of people you
34:06
have to do it all that so you know
34:08
saying that you need to have 75 email
34:11
campaigns and your per quarter it’s
34:14
something I can’t tell you because it it
34:16
would really depend on what your goals
34:18
are and who you are and what you’re
34:20
doing but you want to if you know that
34:23
you have budget to do 50 advertisement
34:29
placements and you have only one piece
34:31
of content you might want to consider
34:32
having other pieces of content to
34:35
support that and you know certainly it’s
34:38
it makes a lot of sense to take
34:40
something and we run it multiple times
34:43
because it takes a lot of touches before
34:46
someone really gets yeah attracted even
34:51
you know somebody is being marketed to
34:52
via a database it might take seven
34:55
touches for them to raise their hand and
34:57
say actually I would like to learn more
34:58
or I will answer my phone went being
35:01
contacted about this particular product
35:04
right Kelly that’s that’s an interesting
35:06
subject I want to ask you where do you
35:09
come down on the reuse of content or
35:12
republishing of content I guess I’d say
35:14
I see it on social media let’s just use
35:16
as an example it can be an email
35:18
marketing you could do the same thing
35:19
but you’ve got a piece of content and
35:21
you pose
35:22
sit on Twitter and I’ve noticed that a
35:25
lot of companies and it seems to make
35:26
sense to me we’ll post the same content
35:29
multiple times per day over time because
35:33
it’s it’s almost like it’s a commercial
35:35
there’s a feed of information coming at
35:36
you it’s not like your inbox where you
35:38
look at each email you
35:40
you’re not going to scroll through your
35:42
whole history of Twitter so if they you
35:44
just put it out once in the day I guess
35:46
the concept is then only people who are
35:49
looking at Twitter at that time are
35:50
gonna see it so when you have content
35:53
like that would you recommend posting it
35:55
regularly for a while multiple times a
35:58
day throughout the week over time lady
36:01
what’s your thoughts on that absolutely
36:03
and you know I I am the one that creates
36:07
the content but it’s really the other
36:09
people that manages channels that kind
36:10
of ultimately make the decision on what
36:12
that magical number is that they want to
36:15
something out there for but you know I
36:17
mean good I would say good common
36:20
business sense is that putting something
36:22
out there and assuming that everybody
36:23
has seen what you put there the first
36:27
time and that they’re super interested
36:28
is kind of unrealistic so if you really
36:31
do want people to you know to see your
36:34
message and to interact with you giving
36:37
it multiple opportunities to be to be
36:40
read is definitely the way to go
36:42
especially given the amount of time it
36:43
takes to create something so certainly I
36:47
you know at one point I don’t I don’t
36:51
know what the recommend recommended
36:53
tweets number of tweets were for for
36:55
company say it was six or eight you know
36:57
I don’t know what it is today that’s for
37:00
the social media team on it to make them
37:02
determination but you know you’d want to
37:04
repeat something that’s of high value
37:07
all right you’re definitely you’re
37:08
wasting your content creation if you
37:10
make a Superbowl commercial and only
37:12
show it during this what’s basically
37:14
exactly yeah so yeah think of it like
37:16
that and assume that people haven’t seen
37:18
it and you want to make sure you you you
37:21
get that message out there you know
37:24
maybe slightly different slavery perfect
37:26
thing is huge
37:28
so maybe treat whatever budget you have
37:30
like it’s your Super Bowl commercial
37:32
budget because that is for you I mean
37:34
that’s whatever you put out is your
37:36
Super Bowl
37:36
whatever your most expensive yeah I wish
37:38
I had the Super Bowl commercial budget
37:40
to do my point is whatever budget you
37:46
have that’s your Super Bowl commercial
37:47
budget whatever your biggest piece is
37:49
you make that’s your Super Bowl
37:50
commercial it’s not being shown during
37:52
the Super Bowl but wherever it’s being
37:53
put that’s kind of how you have to how
37:56
you have to purpose it well and that’s
37:58
why being on the same page with the
38:00
whole company is really key
38:02
you know everyone being in agreement
38:03
about how we’re talking about the
38:05
company how the what the key messages
38:08
are for the company so that when
38:10
something’s created you know one team
38:13
takes it and puts it out there and we’re
38:14
all you know it’s one brand one band you
38:18
know we’re all kind of saying the same
38:19
thing and look that’s a good bump I wish
38:23
I could take credit for coming up with
38:25
that but you can we’ll put you I’ll
38:28
quote you on it I still have a burning
38:30
question I didn’t get to so you
38:34
mentioned something about parts of the
38:35
buying cycles you said one is like could
38:38
be helped make a decision and the second
38:39
one is you’ve got somebody that’s
38:41
actually making a decision between a
38:43
couple of others is there a last bucket
38:45
or a hypothetical last bucket like now
38:49
you’ll get now they’ve made a decision
38:50
now you’re now what the I guess mid
38:53
funnel is still is they’re still
38:56
conflicted and still trying to determine
38:58
who to go with you know it’s like maybe
39:00
they’ve narrowed it down to we think we
39:02
know what sort of solution we need but
39:04
we don’t know exactly who we’re going to
39:05
work with and then stage three is okay
39:09
let’s let’s close the deal here who are
39:12
we gonna decide on and so that’s where
39:15
it gets to be more personal maybe
39:16
they’re talking to customers they’re
39:18
making phone calls and you know doing
39:21
reference calls to find out what the
39:24
experience is for another customer
39:25
that’s you know buying something similar
39:27
to what they’re looking for is there an
39:30
after the creative or after the sale
39:32
creative work yeah here’s your customers
39:34
keep them happy creative kind of a thing
39:36
sure there is yep and fortunately that
39:39
doesn’t really fall under me because
39:42
that’s a whole other that’s a whole
39:43
other discipline that could keep someone
39:45
busy full-time but certainly yeah you
39:47
want to keep your you want to keep
39:49
customers
39:50
happy so I would say on a budget if you
39:53
don’t if you can’t afford to have a
39:55
person that just focuses on that it’s
39:57
actually a lot easier than it sounds
39:58
it’s just called a Starbucks gift card
40:00
that’s how you keep them happy you send
40:03
them that and you’re done creative done
40:05
there you go yeah salespeople that’s all
40:07
you have to do they don’t have to like
40:08
you know but I would say it becomes a
40:10
sales responsibility at bigger
40:12
organizations sales would have multiple
40:14
resources at their disposal to help
40:17
retain happy customers right keep keep
40:20
your company front of mind aside from
40:23
just being bludgeoned by a salesperson
40:25
something just kind of a regular give so
40:27
their brand is out there I guess yeah
40:29
and really I mean depending on what your
40:32
company does the way that you go about
40:35
that would vary depending on what you do
40:38
I guess if you’re a gym and that’s not
40:40
very b2b but you know if you have a
40:41
membership service you can kind of don’t
40:43
want to remind them you just want to go
40:44
away and and hope they never notice
40:46
they’re being billed a month but that’s
40:50
one there that’s one area where the
40:53
content the ongoing content you just
40:54
want to disappear and keep getting that
40:56
monthly fee yeah they’re tucked for the
40:58
year so yeah I’d like to focus real
41:01
quick on to the demand generation part
41:04
of it we talked a lot about the content
41:06
the delivery of the content you got this
41:09
you want to create content you got the
41:11
sales team that wants leads what are the
41:14
actual mechanisms for taking a piece of
41:16
content and generating a lead from that
41:19
that somebody can do so they write up a
41:21
white paper and infographic something
41:23
like that how do they get lead
41:25
information to pass to their sales team
41:26
well I I mean I would think most people
41:30
would have a form set up somewhere and
41:34
and how you track forms and and manage
41:37
your campaigns is I was you know I’m
41:40
sure unique to each company and how they
41:42
want to go about keeping track but I
41:45
mean so gated content kind of gated
41:47
content yeah and that’s really my focus
41:49
is making sure that we have really
41:52
strong gated content because we have a
41:54
particular demand gen budget and we want
41:56
to make sure that the demand gen team
41:57
has good pieces of content to use to
42:02
support their needs
42:04
for the for the content gates so so
42:06
using a forum and you know potentially
42:09
marketing automation to get names in the
42:12
database and then getting those names in
42:16
notifications to as your sales team to
42:19
do the follow-up calls because certainly
42:22
people need to be followed up on in
42:26
order to get them to you know take a
42:29
meeting or do a next step with your
42:32
company right all right so that’s the
42:33
number one thing for you is gated
42:35
content forms drive them through to you
42:37
actually get the content after giving
42:40
them a sample or something like that
42:41
yeah and you know I do have to think
42:45
about the other types of content that
42:47
could come out of something higher value
42:49
so you know somebody on the social team
42:51
might do an infographic and that would
42:55
be unguided and so while it can be tough
42:59
for people in the you know looking at
43:02
the numbers it’s like oh we’re not
43:04
getting leads for that but that’s part
43:06
of the the mix is you know giving people
43:09
things for free so that they may choose
43:13
to raise their hand and actually take a
43:15
call or choose you’ve got to butter them
43:16
up basically with you with your brand so
43:19
so you’d start with some sort of brand
43:21
recognition give and then then look to
43:26
get in the front door so you don’t want
43:27
to send the first thing you send them to
43:29
be some sort of gated content well it
43:31
could be you know cuz we considered a
43:33
lot of our gated content to be top of
43:34
the funnel but you know it depends on
43:37
where people are looking you know some
43:39
ones are you telling enough right
43:42
exactly and you know if if someone is
43:44
browsing your website and they’re mid
43:47
funnel you don’t know what stage there
43:49
are when they’re looking at your website
43:50
and they try to you know learn something
43:53
about you and they you know they can’t
43:56
get simple information without having to
43:59
give their their form they might abandon
44:01
it so there’s always some amount of
44:02
content on the website that someone can
44:05
read and get an understanding and then
44:07
potentially fill out the form for the
44:09
big thing you know when we’re going
44:11
after people in our external campaigns
44:15
where they you know they made it they
44:16
get an email
44:17
and it’s you know a compelling topic to
44:19
them then you know we do get leads from
44:23
people
