Good morning marketers and welcome to the if you market podcast, we are the only podcast that markets the shift out of it. This podcast is brought to you by Mountaintop Data. I’m your host, Sky Cassidy and today we’ll be talking with wes schafer of the sales whisper about C. R. M. S. West Schaefer hosts the sales podcast and he’s the sales whisper where he rehabilitates sales managers and business owners to succeed through the human use of technology. Most importantly for today’s conversation Crm. S West, thank you for coming on the show today. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:01:03 – 00:01:04

Hey man, thanks for having me. 

Sky 

00:01:05 – 00:01:11

And you know what? Before we jump into Crm? One quick note. nine years in the air force. Thank you for your service as well. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:01:11 – 00:01:13

Hey, my pleasure, Thank you. 

Sky 

00:01:14 – 00:01:41

So Crm, you’re in sales and people saying, why are we having a sales guy on a marketing podcast? Where where is this going? But sales and marketing really closely tied sometimes tied together through the crm. So today’s topic. You are a great lover of Crm. S I believe so am I from the marketing side. Um So let’s talk Crm. What’s what’s what what are your thoughts here? Uh One note I have is that you 

Wes Schaeffer

00:01:42 – 00:01:42

you have 

Sky 

00:01:42 – 00:01:50

a tool for helping people find the right Crm, for their company isn’t Salesforce just the right crm for everybody. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:01:52 – 00:02:42

Salesforce is pretty much the wrong crm for damn near everybody other than big companies. Uh and I’ve used that, I’ve I’ve used salesforce since 2004, um Dell brought me in back in 2007 when they deployed, it and it was that was the biggest salesforce installment at that point. Um and I felt a lot of companies, you know, Salesforce was an early investor um in hubspot, I’m hubspot gold partner. Um So it’s, You know, the salesforce is legit right there, the £800 gorilla in the space. But they were they were built for big companies and they’ve kind of worked down, you know, to add um solutions and options for smaller companies, but you know, for the small and medium business, I think Salesforce tends to be overkill. 

Sky 

00:02:43 – 00:03:02

Yeah, there’s a ton of functionality there that maybe uh they will never see and use, but also designed for large companies. I’ve seen instances where there’s companies that say, oh, oh there there’s’s Crm company and say, okay, great, but they’re like, but we because we’re a data company, okay, so who do you want to target just any and all sales and market? And they’re like, no, no, no, just sawmills, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:03:03 – 00:03:03

what 

Sky 

00:03:03 – 00:03:30

I just saw mills, like we make a crm just for sawmills and lumber yards, like that’s their niche, and I was like, oh, I didn’t know there was enough, like, specific differences needed to have that kind of um a need for specialty crm, but it seems there’s there’s quite a bit of difference between the needs from one company next plus your whole topic of saying, hey, let’s find the right crm for your company. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:03:32 – 00:04:36

Well, it’s I guess and no, um from a marketing standpoint, it’s smart to niche down, right? They can, it can come across as the expert that can charge more money uh and you know, as long as they are the expert and deliver great value, then everybody wins. Um on the flip side, it’s it’s like the 80 20 rule, right? The C. R. M. S. And and really Syrians, I think that that phrase has grown and and for small and medium businesses, it should encompass sales and marketing automation. Okay. Because the pure standalone crm really is dead. It’s why like a decade ago salesforce bought exact target so they can start doing email, you know, bulk email, an exact target had already purchased party and party party does automation. So the crm is the hub, right? That’s the 

Wes Schaeffer

00:04:38 – 00:04:47

whatever now do you want to use? Maybe it’s the engine, maybe it’s the trunk, right? It it’s it’s storing everything the important information that you need. 

Sky 

00:04:48 – 00:04:59

It’s called Crm customer relationship management seems like you’re saying not just customer, it’s prospect relationship management, it’s your whole audience relationship management now. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:05:00 – 00:05:02

Um Well, it’s 

Wes Schaeffer

00:05:05 – 00:05:59

and it’s funny that they say that right, customer or contact relationship management, but again, the typical standalone crm, you you would have a pipeline but it was all static. You had to move everything on your own. Okay? Now maybe maybe it would show you if a stage is uh is out of date, right? If it’s if it’s stalled and and of course it can you’re plugging into your Q. R. P. Or into your accounting and you know all this other stuff. So it’s the hub. Um but it still required a human to be there always hands in it adding data, updating data, moving data, uh you know, to to get some value out of it. And so having some intelligence built in there. Hey, when a new lead comes in, send them an email, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:06:00 – 00:06:18

you know send the report or whatever assigned you know, round Robin to the appropriate salesperson, assign a task. If the, you know, if the task is overdue. So you have to define what overdue is. You know, is it, what’s your what’s your S. O. P. Right? Is it six hours, 12 hours, 24 hours whatever 

Sky 

00:06:18 – 00:06:21

it’s helping with accountability kind of on your team? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:06:21 – 00:06:50

Yeah. Then all that starts running. So the so the crm, you know, everything is stored there. But it’s just it’s just data. What do you do with that data? Okay. That’s what you got to build out and so that’s what helps small businesses scale, it lets you grow your sales without growing your staff. That means you’re adding to your bottom line and that’s why you’re in business is to make money. 

Sky 

00:06:51 – 00:07:39

Right? That’s that is the uh the goal typically is is make money. Um So I remember telling, trying to get a salesperson to use a Crm seems to be a classic problem when crm are implemented, but telling this person, look, talking about scaling, I know you think you can remember all your clients, but if you want to have more of them, The CRM is going to help you not just have your 10 accounts that you can keep in your head. But what if you had 100 accounts wouldn’t that be great. You’re not going to be able to remember and not miss calls and not miss, you know, times that you’re supposed to be following up and stuff like that without some sort of system. Um That’s useful for sales. But are there kind of critical components that any and all companies should be 

Sky 

00:07:39 – 00:08:03

um should be using the Crm at a basic level for like, like that kind of thing. Is it just your new system of folders instead of having files on people and physical folders. Now you have it in the computer here. What I guess. What are the basic purposes the company should be looking for if they’re, you know, the listeners, maybe the company doesn’t have a Crm or they’re worried they’re not using it properly. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:08:05 – 00:08:19

Well, most are not using it properly. Alright. But that’s true of all technology. I don’t use all the features in my Tesla and I’ve had it three years. Right? I’ve used iPhone since they first came out in 2007. I’m still not using all the features. 

Sky 

00:08:19 – 00:08:22

I have a spatula, I don’t use all the features on so No 

Wes Schaeffer

00:08:22 – 00:09:26

kidding. Right. Um so the so none of us are using any of these as we should. So that being said. So like I was saying, Crm, should we probably need to come up with a new acronym? Right? Because it’s, it’s customer relationship management, its sales and marketing automation. At a minimum, it should be marketing automation. So that’s why you have a sales guy on here talking about marketing, because marketing is just selling in print. Okay. Everything is sales, everything, you know, you walk into a restaurant, the lighting, sound, the smell, it’s all sales. You know, it’s something’s going in there trying to get you in the right frame of mind. How where do you sit while you wait for, your table is being prepared, uh What is on the table? Happy hour, drink price. What? It’s all a sale. Okay. So 

Wes Schaeffer

00:09:27 – 00:09:53

as you, as you progress through this, you need to understand like the life cycle of a prospect becoming a customer becoming a repeat customer becoming a raving fan. So your crm again is the hub. It’s it’s storing all this data, but then you need to be taking action on that data. You need to be sending relevant information at the moment of relevance. 

Sky 

00:09:55 – 00:10:29

Right? That’s a great point because hey, these people, this is the type of thing they would deal with, but they’re not always thinking about whatever your product is, it’s kind of, I remember back in the day we would send email campaigns and say, look these people at some point are gonna be interested in our product or looking at or considering this, you know, list for their marketing. We just have to be in front of them every week so that when they are, it’s, you know, it’s what intent data is now is saying, what if we just knew when they were interested and then could just reach out to them only at that time. Um, so yeah, when not just interested in your product, but when the time aspect, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:10:29 – 00:11:28

Yeah, I love it. And you can figure that out. Right? You, if your website is big enough for, you have various reports, you can, you can start to make educated guesses on where the buyer is on their journey. Okay. Like my father in law just last night, I bought a new flat screen tv and so he’s always been a technology guy and sound systems and stuff, you know, so, but there’s a huge difference if somebody searches for, you know, best, best tv versus best flat panel tv verse, best O L E D tv or O L E D versus Q led, you know, our best 65 inch tv. Each one of those are little nuances that tells me, okay, this person is a little farther along and they’re buying uh journey. So I need to to greet them differently because imagine, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:11:28 – 00:11:51

you know, imagine you’re working at the store, imagine you’re working at best buy, you know, and somebody comes in just kind of hemming and hawing on looking at phones, boom, look picking up ipads, boom, walking over the stereos, boomed, walking over the refrigerators. You know, I always tell people don’t ask me how how can I help? Oh, I’m just looking, I asked them what brings you in today. 

Sky 

00:11:53 – 00:11:53

Right, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:11:53 – 00:12:04

okay, so as I see that person kind of meandering. I know like maybe they’re just killing time. Maybe they just drop their kids off at karate practice across the street and they’re just they’re just killing time. 

Sky 

00:12:04 – 00:12:12

I feel like you have the difference between selling to the Eskimo that needs snow and then selling to the Eskimo that you need to convince they need snow. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:12:13 – 00:12:19

Yeah. And and really truly, I I hate the whole convincing side of things, right? My goal is to sort sift and separate 

Sky 

00:12:20 – 00:12:24

sales is a lot better if you’re selling to people that want and need that you have, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:12:24 – 00:13:11

if they want they can afford it. Right? So, so that guy coming in. Alright, so maybe I leave him alone, right? Or may I say, what brings you in today? Alright man, I’m just dropping my kids off karate. I just crowded in. There ain’t no sweat, you know? Yeah, I mean literally we’ve all done it. All right, you’re walking to the furniture store, you walk into, you know, my wife will go into pottery, barn, whatever joan’s looking fabric, okay. Maybe she’s, maybe she’ll buy something, but she’s not there for something specific. Okay versus somebody comes in and they got literally printed out spreadsheets, you know, and articles and stapled together. There are there in a manila folder? My wife, my wife still, I mean she’s a paper person for christmas. We have seven kids. She has a notebook 

Wes Schaeffer

00:13:12 – 00:13:25

and she’s, she’s writing stuff down and she uses an app for these gift ideas. Tracks the money receipts. I mean, so if she, she comes in with that phone and that notebook, I’m like, all right, I’ve got a buyer here. 

Sky 

00:13:25 – 00:13:40

So you got the kid at karate practice, then you have the other person that’s uh that’s looking for a specific tv and planning to leave with it. And as a salesperson you could pick one or the other them to talk to but you can’t talk to both. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:13:40 – 00:14:06

Well, but you can now granted they both come in at the exact same moment. Yes, I’ve got to pick and choose, but I still, maybe they both come in. Hey, welcome to the best. Buy, What brings you in today? Oh we’re not together. Okay, What brings you in? Hey look man, I’m just, my kids are karate, I’m just kind of killing time. Hey, no sweat. We’ve got a stereo, got sound system back there, we got headphones, we’ve got recliners, knock yourself out. We even got coffee back there. In other 

Sky 

00:14:06 – 00:14:17

words, great. Don’t waste my time. I need to actually sell somebody that always drives me nuts when salespeople waste all their time when I’m trying to tell them no. And they’re like, I’ve been told not to take no for an answer and this is a waste of time for everyone. That’s 

Wes Schaeffer

00:14:17 – 00:15:03

crap. Right? So then I can just turn to my wife, right? The woman that comes in, what brings you in? Oh, I’m from christmas? Hey, right, this way. Okay, I can and I can look, I can see you’re doing some research so you can make kind of the same intellectual assumptions based on where somebody enters on your website. What kind of report are they? Are they repeat visitors? Okay. Is this the 2nd, 3rd, 4th inquiry, you know? So now in my verb ege and my timing, if somebody is brand new, maybe I follow up with them every three or four days once a week. If somebody’s closer to their purchase, maybe I follow up twice a day. Okay, because they’re buying in the next 36 hours. 

Sky 

00:15:03 – 00:15:13

Right? So how does this with Crm, where does this come in? It seems like you have to have a lot of information letting you know where they’re at letting you know. Um Yes. No. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:15:13 – 00:15:46

Yes and no if um you know depending on like the types of reports uh white papers, things like this, maybe even just have blog posts that that have detailed information in your cooking these visitors and you can see that there are repeat visitors to your website. Uh So you can start to make intelligent guesses about how far along they are because people look no matter what what, people don’t just go hang out at a website or a store 

Sky 

00:15:46 – 00:15:48

just because 

Wes Schaeffer

00:15:48 – 00:15:49

you 

Sky 

00:15:49 – 00:15:52

know maybe the store but definitely not the website. You’re not killing time during even 

Wes Schaeffer

00:15:52 – 00:16:14

the store. Right okay. Like like I don’t have a I don’t have a burning desire or need for any electronics right this moment. But I do like electronics. I have everything. I’ve got my iphone, I’m on an imac I’ve got the new Apple watch. I’ve got airpods, I’ve got I’ve got my Macbook Pro down there, I’ve got my I’ve gone 

Sky 

00:16:14 – 00:16:26

into the best buy, you’re talking about not knowing what I wanted but knowing I had to get a gift for somebody and it’s like I’m gonna look around and and if somebody’s like, hey what can I help you with here? I’m looking for this. Boom. I could probably point me to something a lot bigger than what 

Wes Schaeffer

00:16:26 – 00:17:09

I would have I walk in, I got my airpods in I got my Apple watch. I got my iphone, maybe I’m carrying my my ipad. Somebody goes, dude you’re an Apple fan. Huh? Yeah yeah of course. Like let me show you something. What? And they just start walking away. Okay. Maybe something’s going on. We got a little promotion. They got back to school thing. Hey are you a veteran? Oh yes you’re okay. So maybe just and because maybe the store is slow right? Alright, the guy can spend a little more time on me. Talk it up hey. Oh you gotta trade in policy. Oh my gosh, I didn’t know about that. Got a trade in policy and an open box and the military like oh crap. Alright. I wasn’t planning on it but I’ll get the ipad. 

Sky 

00:17:09 – 00:17:34

I’m saying now you’re like what’s the product? I haven’t even found out what it is but I’m interested. So what is what can marketing do, what does marketing need to put into the crm to help sales with this kind of part of the process. Because I’ve seen things where it’s like oh the lead gets put in and it’s basically we got the name, email some basic company and contact info. But there’s no real context on the handoff 

Wes Schaeffer

00:17:34 – 00:17:35

there’s nothing 

Sky 

00:17:35 – 00:17:39

giving them the type of information you’re talking about to know what to do with these people. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:17:40 – 00:18:37

Well and that’s that’s the problem in a lot of companies is when marketing has different, you know, M. B. O. S. Management by objections or objectives. Um They have different ngos than the sales people. And one time at one of my last um w two jobs I was working for a tech startup. We were in Vegas at a trade show and I was talking to a prospect that I knew I knew him over the phone. We had spoken we hadn’t met we were agreeing to meet at the booth during the show. Um And he was the C. I. O. Chief information officer of a bank and and we sold relied into financial institutions uh and he had his assistant and he had um one of his directors. Okay now so the C. I. O. Was the decision maker. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:18:37 – 00:18:46

Uh And that’s not always the case right? You can’t assume because they have the title there. The decision maker sometimes you know they’ll defer to the director of I. T. Or whatever right there. 

Sky 

00:18:46 – 00:18:47

But somebody else 

Wes Schaeffer

00:18:48 – 00:19:41

will just sign off on it. But in this case you know this guy he was he was the leader and that’s how he ran things. And but this woman, I still remember her name but she she was a contractor in marketing and as we were talking to three of us, the three of them so four of us should go excuse me. She leans in with the scanner beep beep beep and scans all their badges okay because she was paid based on the number of names that she scanned at that trade show. Okay I’m paid on sales now. Extrapolate that out over a three day conference. Okay. I am now going to be given 50 2 200% more names to follow up with then are valid. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:19:43 – 00:20:11

Okay? Now some people say well they all work at the company. It’s good to have the contacts over there. Yes that is true. It’s good to build a hierarchy to understand. See Io CFO. Director of I. T. Director of of database director of of the data center. Director of client side. Okay. I agree 100%. But with no additional information now I happen to know who these people were. 

Sky 

00:20:11 – 00:20:15

So if you’re not there and you’re getting this stuff without 

Wes Schaeffer

00:20:15 – 00:20:15

the context. 

Sky 

00:20:15 – 00:20:19

I feel like you’re saying they got to get all the info. Not just 

Wes Schaeffer

00:20:19 – 00:20:48

So this marketing person would hand me 300 names to follow up with when in reality maybe only 100 names were the people that should be spoken to. Okay. But now it just takes me longer to get through those names and time kills deals. Okay. And then so she gets her bonus but then sales pushes back hey man marketing sucks. What do you mean? Marketing sucks. We got your 300 names. You got me 300 names but only you know 87 of them were real. Everybody else. We’re just lucky lose they were there for free shot. Skis. 

Sky 

00:20:48 – 00:20:59

So if it takes you three times as long to get through to the right people, you’re not even getting one third of the sales because the time is actually killing some of what you would have gotten as well 

Wes Schaeffer

00:21:00 – 00:21:04

like. Oh man, yeah, we just bought last week. I wish you had got in touch with us sooner. 

Sky 

00:21:04 – 00:21:04

Yeah. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:21:05 – 00:21:10

You know, it took me six weeks to get through all the names and I missed the sale by a week. 

Sky 

00:21:10 – 00:21:14

So more information basically you don’t want to put through, not just 

Wes Schaeffer

00:21:14 – 00:21:15

the basic 

Sky 

00:21:15 – 00:21:21

data, but the more information you can push through, the more useful it is for the for the crm. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:21:21 – 00:21:34

Yeah, but you know there again, there’s always a trade off the more information you ask from me. So if you’ve got a form on your site and there’s 18 fields, I have to fill out. The chances of me filling that out are pretty low. 

Sky 

00:21:35 – 00:21:36

But 

Wes Schaeffer

00:21:36 – 00:22:18

anybody that does fill that out, that’s a, that’s a very qualified prospect. Somebody better be calling them right this second. So there’s a trade off most of my forms, you know, I asked for like first name email and and that’s it. Maybe only their email and I take them to a thank you page with a little bonus offer and I say let me get your first name and last name and I’ll give you this little bonus thing I wouldn’t even telling you about because now there are already kind of, I got him on the hook. Alright, alright, so you got to figure out that there’s a trade off, You know how much do you ask in return for what you give? So it just needs to be appropriate and you got to test it and it’s gonna, it’s gonna evolve. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:22:18 – 00:22:25

But you need to understand where the sticking points are in your business on how much information to ask for people. 

Sky 

00:22:25 – 00:23:07

Now, I feel like there’s hidden info to that. Some marketers might not be like some of it is no duh, you’re saying okay, you’re submitting the leads, they need to be tagged with, they were from this event or where they were from this form on the website. Um but there’s all this information that the lead doesn’t have to enter in, that the marketer still needs to pass on, you know, what time was the information collected, Where was it collected, all this contextual information that might actually be very helpful to sales. And I’m supposing also I say as much information as possible. Well not necessarily because you could make up a lot of information that just wasted sales time. So as much relevant information as possible is going to help with that process of not being totally disconnected and not knowing what to do. 

Sky 

00:23:07 – 00:23:19

You know, just a generic pursuit of every lead if all you’re given is hey pursue these names and numbers and you don’t know where they came from, you don’t know what their interests might be. You don’t know why they came in that kind of stuff. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:23:21 – 00:24:17

So you can make an educated guess too if you’re starting off new new territory and new vertical whatever. So like in in that example I knew that we had strong case studies in financial services, in manufacturing and in health care. So okay. So you you give me the names of 100 hospitals in my territory, you know, and you give me the C. I. O. S. Name and contact and vote each of those. Alright. It’s it’s better than nothing and and in my opinion that’s not a true cold call. Okay? If I know you know john smith, see Io at Redlands Hospital but I know like I had a great client in phoenix at a hospital, I could call with relevant information and pertinent case studies that should pique their interest. Okay? And at least move the conversation along. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:24:18 – 00:24:36

Uh So so that’s better than nothing. Alright now, ideally yes, the C. I. O. Comes to our website and request a demo or whatever. Okay. Yeah. So now that’s ideal but it’s you you’re not gonna grow a business based on these ideal circumstances. 

Sky 

00:24:37 – 00:24:40

That’s your business model is what if this happens? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:24:41 – 00:25:36

Yeah, I mean right now there’s no there’s no reason not to strive for that. Okay. You things can be simplified and I was always looking to simplify things so when I was working with that company, I remember I moved to California because I was working with them back in 2004 and The process back then. And for a lot of the people, you know that were working there at the time was these complex demonstrations, detailed demos, power point literature, um, set it up, let them try it for 30 days. All this crazy stuff. And I didn’t do all that right. I don’t want to carry all this equipment I used to carry, it looked like kind of a cross between a flute and a trumpet case. It was kind of a picture of that size, just a plastic case. And we had the actual, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:25:36 – 00:26:19

one of the actual units in that case, um, just so people could see it and touch it. Okay. And you couldn’t plug it in or anything, but it was, uh, so I just started carrying that and then eventually we had this little desktop device, it was about the size of a VHS tape. Then I started just carrying that because the other unit, it was just a computer on a different form factor. So they didn’t even have to see it. So I brought the other thing that was truly unique to us and I said it on the table when it was appropriate. But we just talked and I remember I got this new VP towards the end, he said, what you need to do is do more demos. And I looked at him and I said scott, I haven’t done a demo in 18 months 

Wes Schaeffer

00:26:20 – 00:26:42

Now. The 33 people worldwide working at this company, I was one of only three that made my quote of the previous year, right? Decision makers don’t want demos, They don’t want to look at literature. Okay. If, if you, you know, a friend of mine used to say, I sell million dollar solutions to million dollar problems, 

Sky 

00:26:44 – 00:26:47

right? I feel like you’re, when you say you hadn’t given a demo though 

Wes Schaeffer

00:26:48 – 00:26:48

to defend 

Sky 

00:26:48 – 00:26:54

that, um, that manager a little bit, you knew what you were doing. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:26:55 – 00:26:55

So you 

Sky 

00:26:55 – 00:27:23

could go in and do the sale, but when you’re trying to sell a lot of something, you have to have mediocre people that can sell it still and they may need the structure of a demo to pull it off. So for you, it probably wasn’t necessary, but it’s kind of like when they say the customer’s always, right, well, that’s typically retail at christmas time because you hired a bunch of people that you really don’t trust, so you’re just gonna default to a rule that is not ideal. But since you got a bunch of cookie cutter people that, um, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:27:23 – 00:27:23

you 

Sky 

00:27:23 – 00:27:31

can’t come up with their own solutions and, and do the job very well, you have to give them this less than ideal thing to follow, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:27:31 – 00:27:42

kind of kind of, but it when, when marketing is not very good, then you need great salespeople when you’re marketing is great. You only need order takers. 

Sky 

00:27:42 – 00:27:43

Okay, Mcdonald’s 

Wes Schaeffer

00:27:43 – 00:28:53

only has order takers. Would you like fries with that? Would you like to supersize it for an extra dollar? Right. So because the marketing is great. So mm hmm. If if marketing and sales and operations had their act together, they would be setting up this lead asking pertinent questions, finding a true need and then equipping the salesperson to show up and ask good hard questions that that would persuade the prospect that you were the right person for the job. When you show up, we we demonstrate our proficiency by our bedside manner, right? By the questions that we ask. So when I, when I’m giving a talk or doing training, um, you know, I ask people, hey, does anybody have a doctor like a long term doctor that they’ve used? Okay. And it’s great when women are in the audience because women, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:28:53 – 00:29:29

men a lot of times don’t go to a doctor. Just a bunch of neanderthals, but women typically have a doctor and they see twice a year. Uh and usually for a long time. Right? And um so I’m like, okay, how long have you known your doctor? Five years? 10 years, right? You have people, you know, 10, 12, 15 years. And I asked them and like literally once or twice ever have people been able to answer even the first couple of questions like where did your doctor go to school where they go to college? Like most, I don’t know where they get their bachelor’s, where they go to medical school where they intern residency fellowship, advanced studies there. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Sky 

00:29:29 – 00:29:32

I’m not even sure I know where my doctor’s offices anymore, so I know what you’re talking about. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:29:32 – 00:30:16

Yeah. So I’m like, I’m like you see this doctor regularly, right? Yeah. You know, and some of them like they’ve delivered their kids, right? So so it’s like you you’ve got this doctor but you go to them all the time, you trust them with your kids and you don’t know where they went to school, Why do you trust them? And they’re like, that’s the way they make me feel. How do they make you feel like you’re good, comfortable that they know me that they care. How do they demonstrate that by the their bedside manner the time that they take to engage, how’s it going? What’s happening any changes? You know, tell me how you feel. But let’s get some blood work done, let’s look at things and you know, the doctor never doc doesn’t walk in and say 

Wes Schaeffer

00:30:17 – 00:30:21

hello, I, you know, went to USC medical school and 

Sky 

00:30:22 – 00:30:22

advanced residency 

Wes Schaeffer

00:30:22 – 00:30:27

and look, I used the latest general electric Westinghouse blah blah blah blah. No, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:30:30 – 00:31:06

so we need to teach salespeople to do the same thing right? And marketing can tee up the prospect, prove to the prospect through good marketing that your competence, good warranty, good financials, your stable show some testimonials, okay, got some social proof. Then now it’s like, okay, I’m ready to meet with somebody Because the role of salespeople have changed today, right, 20 and 30 years ago, salespeople had all the knowledge, you couldn’t find everything that you need. So you had to meet with sales person to get the catalog blah blah blah. 

Sky 

00:31:07 – 00:31:08

Right? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:31:09 – 00:31:13

So now salespeople now everything’s on the web 

Sky 

00:31:14 – 00:31:25

and the products have gotten kind of simpler. I mean more self service designed to be able to be intuitive and stuff, but you don’t need a Sherpa to walk you through everything necessarily 

Wes Schaeffer

00:31:26 – 00:32:15

Well, yes and no, but it’s like my wife when she’s researching a toy, uh, address whatever for the kids, like she’ll dive in. She’ll know more about one particular item then the salesperson might know, right? If I, you know, my son is big into trucks. If my son shows up on, on the dealership’s lot, he probably knows more about that one truck than whatever salesman he means. The salesmen will know about the entire fleet. Okay. But, but he knows right there. So we are there to let, to give confidence and reassurance to the prospect that they’ve come to the right decision, it’s different than selling them, 

Sky 

00:32:18 – 00:32:37

right? So it looks like what I’m hearing is you’re saying marketing anything they can pass on that helps salespeople basically points them in the right direction for what problem might need to be solved for what? Um I mean, sometimes it’s obvious the customer says here’s what I want, here’s what I need. Um 

Wes Schaeffer

00:32:38 – 00:32:38

but points them 

Sky 

00:32:39 – 00:32:47

so that the sales people can ask more relevant questions is going to be useful to pass through into the crm. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:32:48 – 00:33:26

Yes. Um and you know, marketing can come into play um you know, like I’ve got a free sales calculator on my website, um you can plug in your, your commission number of calls, you’re making whatever. Um and and it spits out the info, I’ve got a quiz Crm quiz. Right? That that will ask like 23 questions. All just multiple choice boom, boom boom, data size number of contacts, boom, boom, boom, and spits out recommendations. Okay. Based on those answers 

Sky 

00:33:26 – 00:33:31

I’ve seen that, and by the way, that will be in the show notes for the listeners, if you want to check out that quiz to see 

Wes Schaeffer

00:33:31 – 00:33:32

best, best 

Sky 

00:33:32 – 00:33:34

crm fit, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:33:34 – 00:34:12

yep, yep, it’s a Crm quiz dot com. Uh so based on that info, if I know that, you know, you have 20 sales people that need to use the platform and the average sale is $18,000 and the average sales cycle, is Is 60 days. Okay, so now when we meet, you know, you might tell me, Hey, I’m really leaning towards towards, you know, this product. Okay, walk me through that. You know, why do you think that they can say this that and the other and you know what you are exactly on the right path. You know, I concur, oh wow, okay. Or I’d say 

Wes Schaeffer

00:34:13 – 00:34:26

that’s a good point. Have you considered this? You know? So let me ask you something, How do you do accounting? What kind of software will you interact with? Do you need a Q. R. P. What are you doing for inventory? On and on? Right. So I started asking some questions and oh man, I don’t know. 

Sky 

00:34:27 – 00:34:27

All right. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:34:27 – 00:34:42

Uh let me make a recommendation now because I didn’t just jump up and diagnose and prescribe. Okay, now I’m kind of asking some questions and I was like, oh, I like this guy, I didn’t sell anything, 

Sky 

00:34:42 – 00:35:13

it reminds me of the car dealer or buying a car type thing going in and saying I need a car. And you’re saying, well, let’s figure out what’s best for you versus saying I want a ford focus. I don’t know why I chose that brand or anything like that. But you’re saying, okay, you kinda, why do you want that car? Maybe we should look at what’s your budget, how often, how, you know, how much do you drive? What, where do you drive? All, all those kind of details? So it’s kind of a commodity of cars are all pretty good these days. But there are some that probably fit people’s needs a lot more than others. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:35:13 – 00:36:04

Yeah. And, and so I think the car example, I mean there’s not a big difference between, you know, a ford focus, a Toyota Camry, uh, you know, similar Hyundai or Kia. So now we just got to talk through some things. Uh, you know, one of them will have better gas mileage by a mile or two. All right. Some may have a little bit more comfortable. Tell me about your, your daily drive. Oh, it’s all local. Ou commute far. Okay. Um, let’s talk about warranty because it’s, it’s some little nuance in there. That’s going to tip the scale. All right. Because at the end of the day they’re, they’re all very similar cars. Um, you know, similar ride. So let’s, let’s dial this in and, and that really at that point, just make them comfortable with their decision. So they don’t have buyer’s remorse, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:36:05 – 00:36:21

you know, because they’re all fine in that example. So now you just gotta say, you know what? Hey, for You know, this, this brand over here, they charge $1,500 for the premium package with leather and heated seats. You know, it’s included with ours. And we have a little bit better warranty. Oh, wow. Okay, 

Sky 

00:36:21 – 00:37:02

buyer’s remorse. You don’t want with a car or a Crm that is very hard to undo and take back. Fantastic. I wanna transition here. Um, make sure we get to some of this other stuff. I want to talk about you a little bit, how you got to where you are, the sales whisper, your podcast, your business. Um Our audience is mostly marketers but small business owners as well. I think there’s a lot of those listening. Um so yes, we talk about marketing and we try to make sure things fit for marketing, but you are a sales coach, a sales trainer, you do a podcast on sales. Can you speak about kind of your journey a little bit? How did you, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:37:03 – 00:37:03

how did 

Sky 

00:37:03 – 00:37:04

you become that? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:37:06 – 00:37:51

Um Well I was, I was an officer in the Air Force, I was married, we had a kid, had another one on the way. Uh and after my five year commitment from the Air Force Academy, I jumped right into sales. I wanted to get paid based on my production, right, not just time and grade. Uh and I jumped right into sales and it was a little bit of a rocky road in the beginning, got in with a couple of bad companies and but but I was always growing, I was always investing in myself um and through that constant, you know, investment in myself, I came across great coaches, great mentors uh and that that helped set me on the journey, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:37:52 – 00:38:09

you know, to start doing my own thing. I was, I’ve always been good at teaching and training, I was an instructor uh in the Air Force, you know, at the academy, you’re, you’re leading from, you know, your second year, you’re in charge of the freshman, then the juniors are in charge of the sophomores and the seniors just make sure nothing goes to crap. 

Sky 

00:38:10 – 00:38:24

Sounds like a great model for sales teams as well. Um, because you know, you want to ease people in, but you also have to have responsibility. Um, I love that. So you didn’t have training and sales specifically, but you did have training and training. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:38:25 – 00:38:43

Yes. Uh, and you know, leadership is sales. I’ve seen it attributed to to JFK, I’ve seen attributed to Eisenhower, but you know, I say a leader is someone who can get people to do what they don’t want to do and like it. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:38:46 – 00:39:37

Alright. So, um, however you can lead people on that journey. Um, you know, that’s, that’s salesmanship, right? And so that it did set me up. But yeah, I mean, I didn’t have a quota right in the Air force. Um, you know, it wasn’t in recruiting. Um, but I learned how to read people, you know, because when you’re, when you’re leading troops, um, you got to pick up on the vibe. What’s the attitude of everyone? Do you have a bad apple? Can you bring that person around? Um, so that’s all sales, you know? But yeah, I’ve been in full time since 97 like I said, I kissed a few frogs. Uh, and I, I realized, hey, if it and I got into technology right as the NASDAQ popped 

Wes Schaeffer

00:39:38 – 00:39:43

Right in um, in the middle of 2000. So the NASDAQ had already topped, we just didn’t realize it. 

Sky 

00:39:44 – 00:39:45

So lots 

Wes Schaeffer

00:39:45 – 00:39:57

of turnover, layoffs, reorganizations, companies bought spinoffs just terrible. And um, I’m like, man, if if things are this chaotic as an employee, it’s like, it can’t be any worse as a, as an owner. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:00 – 00:40:03

So that, that helped propel me into going out on my own. 

Sky 

00:40:03 – 00:40:07

If it’s gonna be crazy, you might as well be crazy with you in charge. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:07 – 00:40:07

Exactly. 

Sky 

00:40:08 – 00:40:14

So then you start, did you start the sales whisper training? Did you jump straight to that? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:15 – 00:40:17

Well, I didn’t do that until 2006. 

Sky 

00:40:17 – 00:40:18

So you 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:18 – 00:40:39

had already been out and working for others for nine years. And even after I started the sales whisperer was still had a couple of uh, w two jobs until it was, was proficient enough and had enough momentum and recurring income to to go it alone because I mean seven kids, My wife stayed home for 26 years. I couldn’t, I couldn’t risk, you know, I couldn’t jeopardize them. 

Sky 

00:40:39 – 00:40:40

I saw 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:41 – 00:40:41

a picture of 

Sky 

00:40:41 – 00:40:53

you with your wife and kids and I was like, is he a school t is this his class? He’s taking here? Who are all these people around him? Um, seven kids. Yeah. You’ve got to be good at sales if you’ve got seven kids. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:53 – 00:40:54

Amen 

Sky 

00:40:54 – 00:40:58

you and Philip rivers. Yeah, I’ve 

Wes Schaeffer

00:40:58 – 00:41:02

met him, He’s got I think eight or maybe nine. Oh 

Sky 

00:41:02 – 00:41:03

you’re behind man. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:41:03 – 00:41:05

I know. I don’t know. 

Sky 

00:41:06 – 00:41:10

He’s he’s got a little bit bigger of a seed. Uh 

Wes Schaeffer

00:41:10 – 00:41:11

He’s got a little more money. 

Sky 

00:41:11 – 00:41:17

Yeah, bigger bankroll to support the kids there. Um So 

Wes Schaeffer

00:41:17 – 00:41:18

so you’ve 

Sky 

00:41:18 – 00:41:33

got the sales whisper going, can you, can you tell the audience a little bit like who do you work for and what exactly do you do? I imagine sales consulting training, but um kind of who who’s your audience and uh and what do you do for him? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:41:33 – 00:42:14

Well, I’ve got a little bit something for everyone. I’ve got an on demand course. Make every sale dot com. Um It’s only a few 100 bucks and so that’s for the individual salesperson that maybe wants to invest in themselves. Um You know, the company is not doing it. Uh you know, it’s videos, the workbook, it’s It’s my strategy and how I’ve I’ve done sales since 1997. so that’s out there for the individual salesperson. I’ve got a month, monday morning group call, uh sell more of everything dot com. So that’s again kind of for this, that same person that maybe wants to invest a little more in themselves. Uh You can go month to month, you can save a chunk and do it for the year, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:42:14 – 00:43:02

but you get access to the same on demand content, but now we have a live call, we’ve got a private group, you can ask questions okay to to work on your business. Uh and then yeah, I work with sell crm, you know, I’ve worked with solo preneurs, I work with, You know, big businesses, $30, $50 million dollars um hubspot entre port keep, you know, used to be known as Infusion soft. So I’ve got all these types that, You know, one salesperson to 20 sales people. Um So it really runs the gamut and then beyond that, I do copyrighting, so copy by west dot com. So if you need help just tightening up your script, um you know, landing pages, email scripts, phone scripts. Um So it really, it runs the gamut, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:43:03 – 00:43:18

I do a little bit of private coaching but not much because there’s just not enough time in the day to help everybody, but I’ll take on one or 2 clients um at a time just for like executive coaching, whatever verbiage you want to use. Um 

Sky 

00:43:18 – 00:43:26

Right as a trainer, one on 1, you you’re really limiting the amount of kids you can afford to have. Well, no, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:43:26 – 00:44:09

because I just charge more. So but that so that limits who I can really help. But it’s a trade off because I can’t help as many, I have to charge more. So that narrows narrows the field, but some people don’t want group coaching and you know, if you’re a business owner, you know, you’re you’re at a certain threshold. You feel like maybe you’ve you’ve plateau owed um some some one on one, you know, 90 days just to clear the cobwebs. Look at things from another angle, you know, like I go take golf lessons, right? And Um I’ve golfed since I was 23 years old, used to be really good. I used to play a lot, you know, now do Jiu Jitsu but same thing with jujitsu, right? I somebody from the outside looking in, you get an expert that watches 

Wes Schaeffer

00:44:10 – 00:44:15

And in in 15 seconds my instructor can tell me what I’m doing wrong, why isn’t working? 

Sky 

00:44:15 – 00:44:19

I’m pretty sure in his prime, Tiger Woods had at least one golf coach, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:44:19 – 00:44:20

barry bonds 

Sky 

00:44:20 – 00:44:25

had a batting coach like, yeah, it doesn’t matter where you’re at. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:44:26 – 00:45:05

Yeah. So you know, I offer that um, you know, as needed just to help, you know, help high achievers, high performers, um just clear the cobwebs, you know, like I just had a golf lesson actually, it was the first golf lesson I’ve had in in forever because I don’t play that much anymore. But I play with some, some college buddies, some Air force buddies actually, once a year and I’m invited playing, I’m playing a couple of charity tournament, something like, you know what, let’s let’s go, let’s go tune things up and um and it was so good and the guy, he did not tell me anything, I didn’t know right the fundamentals because I was a student of the game, like man, I dove into it, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:45:07 – 00:45:14

but I haven’t filmed myself, it’s so cool. He films you filling in the front from the back, this new software on their phones, you know, he’s drawing lines but not 

Sky 

00:45:16 – 00:45:16

really that big and 

Wes Schaeffer

00:45:17 – 00:45:43

like man, those pants do make my butt look big. Um So um but having him like pointed out like, oh man, um and and give me some tips, some some things to work on to think about to tighten up the swing, you know, it’s um it’s just it was awesome to have and it just reminded me, you know, the value of good third party training 

Sky 

00:45:44 – 00:46:20

and I would encourage companies um Sales training is always good, like sales is where your revenues are going to come from and uh a decent, so it’s like a decent physical. Um the trainer, just somebody there to say do some more push ups is going to benefit you, you’re going to get the benefit out of it. A good trainer is going to be great for you. Like sales training is one of the few things that directly pays for itself, whether you’re doing it for yourself because salespeople, you give yourself a raise with every sale or um the company is doing it because they know, hey 

Wes Schaeffer

00:46:21 – 00:46:21

again that’s 

Sky 

00:46:21 – 00:46:26

company sales, let’s let’s increase that stuff. Yeah. Now 

Wes Schaeffer

00:46:27 – 00:46:27

what about 

Sky 

00:46:27 – 00:46:31

let’s shift over real quick at the end here to back to C. R. M. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:46:31 – 00:46:31

Sky 

00:46:32 – 00:46:48

And what marketing can do with the crm to kind of load up the sales people, can you give me maybe the main thing that marketing should be looking to provide and then maybe one thing to look out for as well. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:46:50 – 00:47:12

Well, the term nowadays, um, that describes as called sales enablement, right? It’s like, are you, are you enabling your sales team? Are you giving them the tools that they need to make the sale because it’s not enough, You know, you’ve got 100 white papers and reports, blah blah blah. But if the sales people can’t find them, if they don’t know what’s current 

Sky 

00:47:12 – 00:47:15

or just which white papers might this lead be interested in 

Wes Schaeffer

00:47:15 – 00:48:06

Exactly? Like narrow this down. Like here’s here’s 10 of them, you know, for those early in the buyer’s journey, here’s 10 for those Halfway there, here’s 10 for those, you know about to make a decision. So things like that here, you give them this calculator, you know, whatever. So so give them those types of things. Um, but, you know, marketing needs to not sugar coat things, you know, I tell my clients, I I look at their their branding, their messaging, their taglines, and I’m like, if if I can remove your logo and put your competitors logo on there and they can say the same thing, then that’s a crappy tagline or value proposition, you know, family owned and operated or we care about, we provide great service after the sale. You know, like 

Sky 

00:48:07 – 00:48:10

basically you had a blank space where you have to put something in it. So 

Wes Schaeffer

00:48:10 – 00:48:16

yeah, and so, and it’s usually just me to ho hum, blah, blah, oh my gosh, give me a break to 

Sky 

00:48:16 – 00:49:00

reminds me of the the doctor analogy I used earlier. I love it. It seems like marketing is kind of the receptionist, kind of the pre you’re seeing the doctor people and I’ve seen doctors and they come in after you’re sitting there a while and they say, so what’s the problem? Or, and then there’s doctors that come in and they say, so I see dada dada dada da and it’s like, oh, they didn’t go spend an hour. I wasn’t waiting the whole time because they were researching, they were fed that information so they could come in and ask more relevant questions and jump straight into things instead of some salespeople that you get on calls. And it’s basically like you’re blind total cold call, barely know the person’s name and you have to just ask them like, 

Sky 

00:49:00 – 00:49:13

okay, what do you guys do? Here’s what we do. How can I was like, wow, that’s a lot of wasted time. And it kind of tells him right away. This is a waste of time. I don’t want to talk to this person versus having the starting off point. I think the marketers could really help with. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:49:14 – 00:49:41

Yeah, for sure. It’s um, you know, as a business owner. My goal is to have such great marketing that I can have low dollar sales, people working for me, right? I mean, I’m in business to maximize my profits. Uh, you know, Mcdonald’s has, you know, teenage, you know, hormone raging brace face kids, you know, With a 300% turnover, 

Sky 

00:49:41 – 00:49:44

the least employable people, Let’s just say that’s what 

Wes Schaeffer

00:49:44 – 00:50:16

they have in their stores. And you know, Mcdonald’s is still continue to grow because their marketing is solid. Okay, they’ve got processes in place. So even if there is turnover, they don’t miss a beat. So, so what are you doing to develop and nurture ideal prospects that are ready to buy. You know, can I, can I get that prospect to second base or third base rounding third base, then just hand them off to the salesperson to guide them on home. 

Sky 

00:50:16 – 00:50:19

It’s kind of what the software is. A service boom 

Wes Schaeffer

00:50:19 – 00:50:20

is really saying, 

Sky 

00:50:20 – 00:50:47

hey, we’re going to eliminate the salesperson and make this whole process. You go online, You see the options you purchase one, they have all the, yeah, maybe still call them sales fund, but it’s really, it’s a marketing journey and the salesperson is kind of cut out of that. I may make a mistake early on in my company where I thought we’re gonna have the best, we’re gonna have amazing salespeople. That’s what we’re going to focus on Great sales training, which again is good. But um, and then I realized at 1.0 

Wes Schaeffer

00:50:48 – 00:50:48

our product 

Sky 

00:50:48 – 00:51:04

in our marketing needs to be good enough that an average salesperson can still succeed because if you have to be the world’s greatest salesperson to sell this, that’s just a bad business. Like the marketing needs to make a mediocre salesperson look good. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:51:04 – 00:51:05

Yeah, exactly. 

Sky 

00:51:06 – 00:51:20

Now what about a mistake with the crm? What’s some that that people need to look out for? Marketing needs to look out for that can cause problems when either selecting a crm or just in the use of the crm and how they interact with sales. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:51:21 – 00:51:26

Um man, so many mistakes 

Sky 

00:51:26 – 00:51:30

doesn’t have to be the biggest one. Just even like one that you find. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:51:30 – 00:51:56

Well so a couple of the biggies are you see people coming, oh well I saw that Oprah uses this or you know, Tony Robbins uses this so I want to buy it. I’m like, are you in the same position? You know? So looking at what your competition is using, it could be a good starting point could be a terrible starting point because I guarantee you Oprah and Tony Robbins didn’t start with that, 

Sky 

00:51:57 – 00:51:57

you know? 

Wes Schaeffer

00:51:57 – 00:52:45

So so make sure you’re getting tools, you know, the right tool for the right stage of your business, A lot of people think that technology is going to solve all their problems and the first thing I do when I work with a new prospect or a new client is we pull out a piece of paper. Usually this big butcher block paper or a big white board and we write down, I call it process before logging. So I’ve got a video and a pdf they can get, if you go to the sales whisper dot com slash P. B. L. Was free process before law again, it walks you through the mentality of, you know, before you log in, joe just like if you go grocery shopping when you’re hungry, you’re gonna buy a bunch of crap you shouldn’t buy. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:52:46 – 00:52:57

Okay if you go shopping for technology when you’re desperate or you’re just persuaded by the flashy stuff you’re gonna suffer if you walk onto a car lot 

Sky 

00:52:58 – 00:53:00

when you have to buy. You haven’t 

Wes Schaeffer

00:53:00 – 00:53:39

done your homework, right? Your car just broke down. Oh crap. It’s raining, blah blah blah. You haven’t done any research. You saw an ad, you know, labor day sale valentine’s day sale and you just go in, you’re gonna overpay alright. You need to look around and say, okay. I found it’s a ford focus. But I find I got I got three, you know, three used ones all you know, within a year of each other, All within 10,000 miles of each other. Okay. I got this one. All right. This is what I want to start with. Here’s my, here’s you know the absolute most I’ll pay. Here’s home runs, I’d like to get them down to. So anywhere in between I’ll consider that a victory. If you don’t walk in with that kind of prep work, 

Wes Schaeffer

00:53:40 – 00:54:14

you’re gonna get hosts. So the same thing with technology process before login, what do you need it to do? What software do you needed to integrate with? How many people use it? What are their departments, marketing, sales operations, hr you know, who all needs to tap into this thing. Uh and if, you know, do you needed to integrate with their Platform? Does it integrate? So there’s, there’s so many things you got to start documenting, but if you just make a list of the top five or 10 things that you need before you go shopping, you’re gonna be much better off. 

Sky 

00:54:14 – 00:54:30

Seems like a lot of small businesses in particular, like if they go to Salesforce, Salesforce will sell them Salesforce, but there’s probably a free Crm for their size that fits all their needs and or they could be getting this large sales force uh, set up. 

Wes Schaeffer

00:54:32 – 00:55:04

Yeah, it’s um, that’s the problem. When you go, yeah, you go to the ford dealership, you’re gonna buy a ford, you know, granted, they may have, they may have some used cars, they’ll have some Chevys there, but if you’re looking for new, you’re only going to buy a ford, you come to somebody like me, I’m gonna help you find the platform, you know, from like six or eight that I work with, I’m gonna help you find the best one. So, I kind of get an insurance, you know, you get a captive agent versus a broker like, okay, let me go find the best one for you. Um, so, you know, you need to take that into consideration. Um, so it’s um, 

Sky 

00:55:04 – 00:55:08

a little bit of prep, it sounds like do a little bit of prep 

Wes Schaeffer

00:55:08 – 00:55:09

measure twice. Cut once 

Sky 

00:55:10 – 00:55:50

I guess. So it’s not just google best crm, but think you got to set up, what do I need from this thing? What do I need? Excellent. Excellent. Well, thank you for coming on. So show notes, you’ve mentioned many sites will try to get all those into the show notes. I’ve got sales whisper dot com slash P. B. L. I think was the one who said a little while ago, a whole bunch of others, the listeners, you can go to the show notes to see more information on West on the sales whisper his podcast. The website links the crm quiz, all that kind of stuff and uh that’s all on the market dot com in the, in the show notes for this episode and then please find us on social media, share us. Um, 

Sky 

00:55:51 – 00:56:07

subscribe if you’re not already all that kind of good stuff and on behalf of the, if you market team and West Schaefer of the sales whisperer. Thank you for listening to the, if you market podcast where we believe if you market the shift out of it with the right crm, they will come!