This week on the If You Market podcast we speak with Patrick McFadden about effective sales and marketing by solving your clients problems. Spoiler alert, you clients don’t care about your product. Patrick shares his approach as a business consultant, as well as the top issues he sees when clients bring him in, three actions marketing needs to be doing to help sales, and much more.
Patrick McFadden is Founder and Marketing Consultant at Indispensable Marketing, a small business marketing firm that takes a process approach to increase visibility and make your phone ring. He is active in helping business owners, and managing partners of small organizations change the way in which their clients view what they do and in effect render the competition irrelevant.
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LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmcfaddenmarketing/)
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Quora (https://www.quora.com/profile/Patrick-McFadden-4)
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w: indispensablemarketing.com
Free Small Business Marketing Guide – https://indispensablemarketing.com/small-business-marketing-guide/
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Transcript:
00:11
thank you for listening to The If You Market
00:13
podcast I’m your host sky Cassidy Karla
00:16
Jo Helms is here with us today hello
00:17
hope everybody’s having a great
00:19
disruptive day today we’ll be talking
00:22
about solving problems versus providing
00:24
solutions in b2b marketing with Patrick
00:27
McFadden Patrick is the founder and
00:30
marketing consultant at the small
00:32
business marketing firm indispensable
00:34
marketing he’s active in helping
00:36
business owners and managing partners of
00:38
small organizations change the way their
00:40
clients view what they do and get the
00:42
phone to ring Patrick we’re really
00:44
excited to have you on today absolutely
00:46
I’m ready to make a ruckus I have to say
00:49
I love that you have indispensable
00:51
marketing I love you have that in your
00:53
name that’s quite a name the story of
00:57
you know actually thought that name was
00:59
taken I said it’s no way nobody hasn’t
01:03
taken indispensable marketing you know I
01:06
did the whole Google for the domain name
01:08
I said wow it’s available and then I did
01:11
the search locally here in the State
01:14
Corporation Commission and I said
01:15
somebody picked independent
01:17
indispensable coaching but nobody took
01:19
any sensible marketing that’s it well
01:21
it’s mine Wow every time I do that and I
01:24
say oh my god this is available I got to
01:26
go get it and then I look at it again
01:28
and I’d had a typo yeah who knows how
01:39
many domains I could have purchased that
01:40
were one letter off somewhere I wanted
01:44
dyslexic calm but I misspelled it okay
01:47
so the topic today doesn’t have its own
01:49
box it’s already in it’s not self
01:51
explanatory so we’re gonna rely on you
01:53
Patrick to do some of the explaining for
01:54
us solving problems versus providing
01:57
solutions can you give a general
01:59
description of what you mean by that
02:00
yeah so a lot of times especially in b2b
02:05
most people really don’t want to buy
02:08
what we’re selling what they really want
02:11
is that there
02:12
to be solved and I think that needs to
02:15
be our focus and our approach and what I
02:19
find is in a lot of cases it’s not quite
02:21
the person that understands the solution
02:24
the best that wins the business it’s the
02:27
person who can articulate and understand
02:29
the problem of the client the best that
02:32
wins the business mm-hmm good great
02:34
absolutely and so we really think about
02:38
okay they wouldn’t buy my service my
02:42
software as a service either if it did
02:45
not solve this problem so I’m selling
02:48
solutions to problems rather than trying
02:51
to sell problems to Solutions basically
02:55
so it doesn’t matter how cool your
02:57
product is it needs to solve their
02:59
specific problem 100% and then you’re
03:03
saying that’s on the product side but
03:05
then on the marketing side stop talking
03:07
about the functions they don’t care
03:08
about stop talking about what the
03:10
product is there may be some tiny aspect
03:13
of it and that’s your selling point yeah
03:15
so another thing like you talked about
03:17
on the marketing side you need to
03:19
refocus your message on problems and not
03:22
solutions because you just think about
03:25
it from somebody standpoint of
03:26
researching what do they research they
03:29
research of the problem they have and
03:32
maybe what ways they could solve that
03:34
and then if you just think about it from
03:37
a Google aspect of I’m going to go to
03:39
Google or I’m gonna type in how to hire
03:41
my first employee well we’re talking
03:45
about all your HR solutions you’re gonna
03:48
get missed but if you start talking
03:50
about you know what are the three things
03:52
you need to know before you hire the
03:54
first employee and and all those other
03:57
other things and then say by the way we
04:00
have the first employee program or
04:02
whatever like that then you’ll show up
04:04
and you have a greater chance at winning
04:06
that business because you’ve shown that
04:09
you can understand their problem right
04:11
so it’s a it’s a version of putting
04:13
yourself in their shoes marketing
04:15
product combined with it with your
04:17
approach yep and the other thing too is
04:20
that everybody who’s buying they’re
04:25
buying
04:25
based off what they believe they will
04:27
get achieve lead dodge or and other
04:31
cases acquire based on what you’re
04:33
selling right that’s funny I know I’ve
04:36
mentioned in previous podcasts that
04:39
something I preached or people hear is
04:41
people don’t buy our solution because we
04:44
have what we have
04:46
people buy something because it solves
04:47
their their personal problem makes their
04:49
lives easier basically if you have an
04:51
awesome product but it makes more work
04:53
for them it’s gonna be a tough sell if
04:56
you have a mediocre product and it makes
04:57
their life a little bit easier now you
04:59
got their attention kind of you know I
05:04
use this example all the time I have
05:07
never once heard one of our clients wake
05:10
up and say gosh I really want some more
05:12
marketing consulting right with their
05:17
they wake up and say how do I make my
05:19
phone ring how do I get on the first
05:22
page of Google how do I increase my
05:24
local presence and those are the things
05:28
and the problems that they want to solve
05:30
and it’s our job to you know educate
05:34
them on okay here is our process an
05:37
approach to solving your Pacific problem
05:40
this is how we would attack that
05:42
excellent so we’re gonna get back to
05:45
that I want to jump away a little bit of
05:47
course I mean the subject today solving
05:49
problems versus providing solutions and
05:51
marketing will be the main focus but I
05:53
want to jump back to you a little bit
05:54
Patrick kind of how you got where you’re
05:57
at where you came from how you got into
05:59
this into consulting and starting your
06:01
own your own company there can you jump
06:04
in the way way back machine with me
06:06
absolutely so whoever you want to start
06:09
we don’t need to go over your childhood
06:10
but actually I give I’ll give the step
06:18
stage I give it like a four stage so
06:21
actually we started in a childhood I
06:27
wanted to do this you know I was the kid
06:33
this old baseball cards and stuff like
06:36
that and I just figured out that if
06:39
I could you have something that somebody
06:41
wanted they would pay for it and I end
06:46
up selling candy around my neighborhood
06:48
and we were the first family to have the
06:52
membership to Costco and so I said Sam’s
06:55
Club and I said Wow
06:56
all this stuff is in bulk so I ended up
06:58
selling them on the neighborhood where
07:01
we lived people threw trash on the
07:03
ground so a notice came around said we
07:06
don’t know where the abundance of trash
07:07
is coming from but it needs to stop
07:09
I went knocked on the door of the
07:11
property management company said would
07:13
you pay me to pick up the trash they
07:15
said yes they said yes there’s a ton of
07:17
candy wrappers all of a sudden we don’t
07:18
know why that I would in turn hire my
07:25
friends to pick up it and then they
07:27
would in turn reinvest the money I paid
07:29
them to buy the candy back for me
07:31
us that’s great from there you know so
07:36
rise in high school too so I had like
07:38
the first uber solving a problem
07:42
actually but the problem was my friends
07:44
wanted to sleep late and I said well
07:47
Brad what I could sleep later
07:48
so you messed up I need gas money and
07:52
then from the consulting standpoint so I
07:55
was fortunate enough coming out of
07:58
school I’ll be rocked open or always
08:00
selling stuff but have a full-time job
08:02
to working in an engineering company so
08:04
I was in a mechanical department that’s
08:08
kind of stage two of it where I’ve
08:10
always been part of a process so I had
08:13
to coordinate with civil structural
08:15
architectural electrical around all
08:19
these different components going into a
08:21
building and I always thought one
08:23
affected the other and I to still then
08:27
looked at different ways to solve
08:29
problems and stand out but I decided
08:31
that I needed to look at what I was only
08:34
like to do and what I enjoyed so after
08:37
looking over my all the life experience
08:40
I had I said I really enjoyed consulting
08:42
I love problem-solving
08:43
I love the salesmanship figuring out why
08:45
somebody’s going to buy how to improve
08:47
their life and I said I think marketing
08:49
is where it’s at so I used to hear that
08:52
is I basically law every day I learned
08:56
something and so somebody’s that they
08:58
pay me for it I’m reading my blogs I’ve
09:00
lost seven days a week about what I
09:02
learned in marketing when I’m seeing how
09:05
I’m helping people for free and what it
09:07
were the results and eventually started
09:11
McFadden coaching in 2010 and realized I
09:16
wanted to then transition that to a firm
09:18
and start an indispensable marketing in
09:20
2012 well you found a domain and you
09:22
said I make fattens great but
09:24
indispensable come on you guys
09:27
specialize in small businesses right yep
09:30
interview so what are you when you look
09:32
at a business what do you define as
09:34
small when would you work with companies
09:36
50 or less you what’s kind of your your
09:39
niche yep for us it’s it’s really about
09:41
the problem that they have our niches
09:45
for that business where there they could
09:47
be at half a million typically they’re
09:49
about 750 to 5 million they have a staff
09:54
the owners still involved in the
09:56
marketing and typically what we notice
09:59
is outdated marketing material website
10:01
it’s just all over the place and they
10:06
noticed that their competitors are out
10:08
ranking them and beating them and online
10:10
and they just want somebody to lean on
10:13
and kind of take care of the stuff and
10:17
manage all the different moving pieces
10:20
and that’s where we come in and really
10:22
fit and best serve those type of clients
10:25
where you know they can be dealing with
10:27
8 different vendors from SEO pay per
10:29
click website design branding and it’s
10:31
like how do I make all this stuff a
10:34
moving boat and a process and that’s
10:37
where we specialized for that type of
10:39
company so you probably have some
10:41
standard processes like have you seen
10:43
the shows like Bar rescue and some of
10:46
these you know people come in to
10:47
businesses are struggling and and they
10:49
have some a checklist of things or like
10:52
we got to go through this this this and
10:53
this do you have something like that
10:55
when you go into a business and you’re
10:57
looking to help them with the marketing
10:58
absolutely we start what we call
11:00
strategy first or a diagnosis before
11:03
prescription
11:05
we always want to know what’s currently
11:08
working what have you done with have you
11:11
not done what are your customers think
11:14
about your business who actually makes
11:16
the best customer for us who can we best
11:19
serve whatever is our servicing look
11:22
like invoicing all the touch points
11:25
really nailed down the brand and and the
11:28
culture and the messaging and it’s
11:32
pretty much that big intake process up
11:35
front of discovery so we can then
11:38
present we found you know it’s really
11:41
important isn’t it it was really getting
11:43
all that data
11:44
do you just consult with them when they
11:46
have all of these eight plus you know
11:48
vendors or do you actually help them do
11:51
some execution pare them down yep so
11:55
what we found is that not only
11:58
understanding marketing is difficult
12:00
buying marketing services is difficult
12:03
and then implementing with marketing
12:05
services is difficult as well so we’ve
12:08
found is after we do the discovery phase
12:10
we move into execution where we either
12:14
will manage the vendors to execute the
12:18
plan as its laid out or if you have an
12:21
internal team we work with them to
12:23
coordinate and orchestrate the efforts
12:25
and so we work both ways either we can
12:28
handle it on our side or we work with
12:30
your internal team or you may be working
12:32
with an outside vendor that you love and
12:35
we just go ahead and partner with them
12:37
and to make everything happen from an
12:39
execution standpoint but what’s
12:42
important about this is that they are
12:44
implementing based off how we are
12:48
coordinating and mapped it out so it’s
12:50
very strategic in the time that they put
12:53
towards executing on initiatives for our
12:55
clients that’s the engineering you and
12:57
that’s awesome because most business or
13:01
business owners they think that way then
13:04
you’re not execute that way but they
13:06
think that way right especially small
13:08
business you execute seat-of-the-pants
13:10
but you have some big thoughts you know
13:14
it’s funny I was speaking with someone
13:16
earlier
13:17
today and they helped me realize a lot
13:21
of times what happens is we almost up
13:24
the level of professionalism for our
13:26
clients and who they’re attracting that
13:30
they tend to raise their prices a lot
13:34
and never have any pushback because
13:36
they’re reaching the right market and I
13:38
didn’t I didn’t notice that until I was
13:41
talking to somebody earlier and I was
13:42
like you know we get the clients there
13:44
at the premium of the market and I was
13:46
like wait a minute
13:47
some clients didn’t start at the top of
13:48
the market they raised their prices but
13:50
it was all because the way they were
13:52
positioned in the marketplace and what
13:53
they communicated and you know all of
13:56
that allowed them to do that yeah and I
13:59
guess when you’re I mean you’re coming
14:00
and you’re looking at their marketing
14:01
overall today’s subject that you know
14:04
the problem-solving part how often does
14:06
that come up how how frequently with the
14:09
businesses you’re consulting with is
14:10
that a big part of their you know what
14:14
they’re they need to adjust that’s the
14:16
whole could that’s the whole caboodle
14:18
really once you structure your whole
14:20
company to be about solving problems
14:23
that’s all the customer cares about and
14:25
so every phone call a strategic it’s
14:29
around what are we trying to solve for
14:30
the customer on this phone call are we
14:32
trying to help them get a better idea of
14:34
what their problem is or their situation
14:37
you have a purpose behind everything and
14:40
if it’s problem solving then it tends to
14:44
filter and go throughout the company and
14:47
its absolute seen on everything from
14:50
where this meeting is gonna solve what
14:52
for the customer why are we having this
14:54
why are you calling the customer but
14:56
what are you doing for them not what is
14:57
your widget or service whatever do so
15:00
every time I hear that problem solving a
15:02
problem solving from all I hear in the
15:04
back of my head has just ended and then
15:06
it end and that’s a problem yo I’ll
15:12
solve it the best lines you know that’s
15:21
so funny if I got a problem you all
15:23
solve it that is a great line for sales
15:25
and marketing it is well
15:27
and what we found is when no and b2b
15:30
your solutions solve a multitude of
15:32
problems and so it’s all about if you
15:37
understand that then the salesperson or
15:40
whoever’s in that role it really gives
15:43
them the freedom to know that they’re
15:44
helping and that they’re coming from an
15:48
educational point of view and the
15:50
customers can feel that oh and it keeps
15:53
you almost like an archer proneural
15:54
mindset of spotting opportunity right um
15:57
so I guess I mean the companies you work
15:59
with you kind of have a self-selecting
16:01
crowd which has got to be nice because
16:03
if they’re coming to you saying and they
16:05
have marketing problems and they know it
16:07
so they’re talking to a consultant about
16:09
it then they’re really looking to make
16:11
changes and they’re open to make changes
16:13
and they’re open to you know to talking
16:16
to you about solving these problems yeah
16:17
you know we just this is a good time
16:20
actually I was very firm on not
16:25
accepting one-offs you know if you came
16:28
to us and you said I just want a website
16:30
I would usually just refer you I would
16:33
try to educate you on you need a process
16:35
approach you know because even if you
16:38
build it how are you gonna get traffic
16:39
to it so I would bring those questions
16:41
up and those that it resonated with they
16:44
would they would usually sign on but
16:45
those are that just want a website I
16:47
don’t really that so I usually sent but
16:49
I’ve discovered lately sometimes you’ve
16:53
got to have the conversation and to talk
16:55
about what they want so you can then
16:58
talk about what they need and so we
17:01
start accepting some of that ala carte
17:03
stuff just because we know they want it
17:06
and then we could move forward with the
17:08
conversation about what they need you
17:10
don’t know what else you’re gonna
17:11
uncover I guess – absolutely
17:13
can you give some examples of some some
17:16
clients I mean know how to name names or
17:18
anything like that but some situations
17:19
you’ve come into and in solutions things
17:22
that worked out things that didn’t that
17:23
kind of stuff yes we’re working with a
17:28
accounting company and the great thing
17:31
about them is the owner really wanted
17:34
the staff to know a lot of the problems
17:37
they solve and all the other services
17:39
that they offer
17:40
and so we did is put together a campaign
17:43
where I’m their strategic monthly
17:47
meetings and meetings that are set up
17:49
where the owner just kind of gave a
17:51
brief overview of here’s all the
17:53
services we have and here’s the things
17:56
that we looked for and what would make
17:58
them a good candidate and it was it was
18:01
good to see the staff start it’s you
18:04
know an arrow on the phone with clients
18:06
started to actually make those
18:07
inter-service introductions say hey did
18:10
you know this you might be a good
18:11
candidate for this we can actually help
18:13
you solve that and we saw over a
18:16
three-month period increase in new
18:20
services being offered to system clients
18:22
just by bringing them up basically like
18:25
hey we can solve this problem and this
18:26
problem as well if you have it yep and
18:29
it made sense for the staff because they
18:31
were able to see like oh I talk to
18:33
people on the phone that mentioned these
18:35
problems and I didn’t know we could
18:37
actually help them with their payroll
18:38
and we had a peer group that if they
18:42
wanted to have a private sessions with
18:44
other business owners and we can
18:46
actually take care of we got actually be
18:49
a fractional member or a CFO of their
18:51
team and it was just enlightening to see
18:53
the staff get behind that and say okay
18:56
we’re solving we’re helping our existing
18:57
clients right and I guess it sounds like
19:00
I’m in a lot of this this is crosses
19:02
over between sales and marketing the
19:04
lines are really blurred I agree with
19:06
you subscribe and it seems blurred but
19:08
you know sales is sort of a type of
19:11
marketing to be honest well I meant that
19:14
as a good thing too I mean the more you
19:15
can blur the line between sales and
19:17
marketing in my opinion the better yeah
19:18
no I agree
19:19
so my big point of view on this is sales
19:24
is under the header of marketing because
19:27
really they’re a communication vehicle
19:31
to prospects and clients it just happens
19:36
to be to that because they’re so
19:38
front-facing there are also the best
19:41
data point and research to figure out
19:43
what are people actually saying and what
19:45
are the actual conversations that you’re
19:47
having yeah which
19:49
you can coordinate back to your
19:50
messaging to attract more so you
19:53
approach it from a marketing centric I
19:55
mean I’ve always told them I we might
19:58
have to fight over this I don’t know but
20:00
Patrick I’ve always told my people that
20:03
the marketing department works for sales
20:05
and in our company that’s kind of how we
20:07
run it doesn’t mean it has to run that
20:09
way everywhere of course but it sounds
20:11
like you kind of put forward a structure
20:15
where sales is working for marketing
20:17
more I would say yes only because in the
20:20
small business that needs to be for
20:24
somebody to be the head of the
20:25
coordination and the conversations and
20:28
usually in a small business sales is not
20:31
offering up insights they’re out there
20:33
trying to pound it and so somebody has
20:36
to say hey we got to have the good to
20:38
come to meeting and we got to have the
20:40
chat what are you what are prospects
20:42
talking to you about our is it hard to
20:44
demonstrate the value are they not
20:46
seeing the value and it’s is easy to get
20:48
that feedback from them and also look at
20:51
emails around the questions that clients
20:53
are asking and being able to map that
20:55
back to the marketing and say well we
20:57
can dress that on the website or we can
20:59
address that with a standard email
21:00
template and smooth out the sales cycle
21:03
as well as the communication how do you
21:06
find sales people I mean if you come
21:08
into a company and say hey things need
21:09
to work around marketing more how does
21:12
the salespeople usually react to that I
21:14
mean I could see some instances where
21:15
they would fight it in some instances
21:17
where they would be glad that they’re
21:19
just handling the last stage of it kind
21:21
of and marketing is doing a lot more of
21:23
the setting up and and taking care of
21:26
business for them well the way we
21:28
approach it is that we are kind of
21:32
coming in to make their life easier and
21:35
we know the reason that sales are so
21:38
hard is because marketing does a bad job
21:40
at communication and so where you come
21:43
in immediately and say look what we’re
21:45
trying to do is make it so when a client
21:48
comes they are more educated they’re
21:51
more trusting which then should be able
21:54
to help you in your conversations and
21:56
they’re like small so you’re here to
21:58
help 100% so when we come in we just
22:01
address with
22:02
we’re here to help and not cause them
22:04
more work but in fact gather the
22:07
insights we need to give them the tools
22:09
and arm them with the information they
22:12
need to push them in right have the
22:15
clients kind of better targeted more
22:18
ready to go and have more information on
22:21
what they need for the salesperson to
22:23
kind of pick up with yeah yeah people
22:27
would fight that no I don’t fight it
22:29
either I think it’s also you know how
22:31
you present it to them but you know with
22:33
sales you know PR sales marketing all
22:37
becoming so integrated today and such a
22:40
vital component of the whole intelligent
22:42
promotion cycle I think that I’m having
22:46
those discussions and really having
22:48
marketing get from the front lines you
22:51
know they’re the sales are the front
22:53
lines they’re out there like finding out
22:55
what’s really going on right and you
22:57
know having that relayed back to
22:59
marketing or having marketing take the
23:00
lead to do that to then figure out how
23:03
to communicate to solve those problems
23:04
is kind of an age-old problem right it
23:10
is that’s been you know the common
23:13
frustration is when LinkedIn and all
23:16
these tools started happening even
23:18
before then salespeople develop their
23:21
own leads but sometimes I’m half comma I
23:25
do small I would say consulting
23:28
conversations with a fortune 500 or a
23:31
large company and I’ll be sitting in a
23:34
room with all sales people in the head
23:36
of sales and they typically say our
23:38
marketing team sucks they send this
23:40
unqualified wasting my time that it uh
23:43
what I’ve never heard that before you
23:48
know sales are up it’s all sales you
23:52
know sales are down all marketing and
23:55
quite frankly they’ll say the best
23:58
tactic or thing we did was put on a vent
24:02
and I invite all these prospects and had
24:06
some speakers and that worked and I said
24:08
of course that worked that’s something
24:12
that the marketing team should be
24:14
thinking
24:15
to help address the trust and the
24:17
information and as it’s all dating and
24:20
sales people know this there’s going to
24:22
be multiple conversations which I call
24:24
multiple dates before you close that
24:26
deal Marketing should position the
24:31
company and its solutions as the best
24:34
date or you know possible way to go on
24:37
that date and have that conversation
24:39
there the matchmaker Oh in a sense and
24:42
then you know the sales person has to do
24:44
the dancing and if they can’t dance if
24:48
you want to close the deal learn to
24:50
dance all right that’s great I got a
24:53
handful of other things I want to go
24:54
over but I want to take a quick break
24:55
here before we go too long we come back
24:59
from the break we’ll be talking more
25:00
about solving problems versus providing
25:03
solutions with Patrick McFadden Patrick
25:06
so something to think about I want to
25:07
see if you can pull up a fail example
25:10
for us you talked about a success a
25:11
minute ago but if you can find somewhere
25:15
where something happened where maybe
25:17
where you weren’t able ultimately to
25:18
help people or where things didn’t go
25:20
right necessarily at first people always
25:22
love hearing about that kind of stuff
25:24
and then we’ll have much more after the
25:26
break with Patrick McFadden and our
25:28
lovely co-host Carla Jill Helms and
25:30
myself hi this is Rachel Simon with
25:35
connect-the-dots digital we work with
25:38
subject matter experts company founders
25:40
executive and industry leaders to help
25:43
them develop thought leadership and
25:44
leverage their relationships on LinkedIn
25:47
managing individual LinkedIn accounts we
25:49
identify it and connect in a strategic
25:51
way with client targets we showcase
25:53
thought leadership by sharing valuable
25:55
content that resonates with your
25:57
audience
25:57
finally we develop and send personal
26:00
LinkedIn messages to connections that
26:02
establish trusted relationship lead to
26:04
conversations and add warm leads to the
26:07
sales pipeline through this strategy
26:08
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26:11
targeted connections and have closed
26:12
over $200,000 in new business within a
26:15
year
26:16
learn more at connect the dots digital
26:18
calm
26:22
all right we’re back from the break I’m
26:24
your host Skye Cassidy you’re listening
26:27
to a few market podcasts we’ve got our
26:29
lovely co-host Carla Joe Helms here with
26:31
us howdy howdy
26:32
and we’re talking to Patrick McFadden
26:34
about solving problems versus providing
26:37
solutions in your marketing he is the
26:39
founder of indispensable marketing where
26:42
he dispenses indispensable marketing
26:44
consulting advice Patrick thanks jumping
26:47
back on let’s get right into it
26:50
problem solving let’s talk some more
26:51
more about that okay you know I really
26:54
think I wanna give some actionable
26:56
advice on what to do with this so if you
27:00
really want to know the problems that
27:03
you solve quite frankly what your
27:05
organization does well we have two
27:08
methods that we deploy the first is
27:12
actually – believe it or not is to go to
27:14
your testimonials and reviews and a lot
27:18
of times clients will tell you you know
27:21
they were the best because they cleaned
27:25
up very thoroughly and left it looked at
27:28
my yard exactly like it was or they’ll
27:30
say you know I play I love them joy
27:33
working with them because they always
27:34
let me know what they can’t do and what
27:36
they can or I enjoy the fact that they
27:40
always return my phone call and up
27:43
timely a prompt prompt manner and so the
27:45
reviews actually tell you what problem
27:49
you’re solving for that industry and you
27:51
know from my experience there was a
27:54
couple of industries that just have
27:55
common problems no matter what I hear
27:57
that attorneys don’t return phone calls
28:01
in the forms of a commercial repair b2b
28:07
type situations they will say that the
28:11
servicing company doesn’t show up at one
28:13
time does not do the work as performed
28:15
or as promised so those become the
28:18
buttons that you can use in the
28:21
marketing to get attention and then they
28:24
can then lead with them then they can
28:26
communicate the message of what they do
28:28
to solve the problem that’s kind of how
28:30
I see it you 100% nailed it that’s the
28:36
if I censor myself the service you’re
28:39
providing might be tangential to I mean
28:41
there’s a bunch of people providing it
28:43
and why would they serve you I know we
28:45
have a plumbing company out here that
28:47
their whole commercial it’s like yeah
28:49
you know we’re plumbing we’re not gonna
28:50
talk about that we’re just gonna tell
28:52
you we show up on time and smell good
28:53
that’s it yeah like you know plumbers do
28:57
plumbing but here’s the things that you
28:58
hate about plumbers yeah and the beauty
29:01
about it is you’re an attraction
29:03
business if your client or customer has
29:07
that problem you then say Oh where’d
29:11
that company for you if you’re having
29:13
this problem and I will pay whatever to
29:15
make sure you show up and you don’t
29:17
stink right so you’re changing the
29:19
conversation from can you unplug this
29:22
toilet to don’t even think about that
29:24
just will you be on time will you this
29:26
way that I hate that we’re getting into
29:28
b2c stuff but let’s pretend it’s a
29:29
business toilet they don’t return calls
29:34
right yeah yeah yeah that’s a huge
29:38
frustration the marketing can sell
29:40
people on on talking to sales and
29:42
getting in the pipeline and you’re kind
29:44
of already sold on the service now it’s
29:45
just technically going through the steps
29:47
because of something that’s not even
29:49
related to the service necessary
29:51
absolutely and b2b you know
29:53
consulting as consulting as consulting
29:56
accounting as accounting as accounting
29:58
oh but what you want is that customer
30:01
that says I buy into your way of solving
30:06
my Pacific problem and so because of
30:09
that I want to work with you because
30:11
your way of addressing the problem
30:14
resonates with me right it says semi
30:17
commodity almost in that there’s not a
30:19
huge differentiator other than I live in
30:21
your town for a lot of these kind of
30:23
services absolutely and they I have a
30:25
specific way that I want to address
30:28
doing work for you and if you buy into
30:31
that way it’s no different I always like
30:35
to use these examples because it’s so
30:37
clear that if you said I like p90x
30:39
because I can get in shape in 90 days
30:42
well if you buy into that 90 day
30:44
philosophy you’re gonna buy the program
30:46
right but if they know I
30:48
by into the 60-day program well then
30:51
you’re gonna buy that one so it’s no
30:53
right or wrong it’s just what fits you
30:56
the way you want to solve that problem
30:58
right all right I love it
31:00
hey so what are the top three problems
31:03
that your prospects that become your
31:07
clients come to you for what are the top
31:10
three issues that your prospects and
31:14
clients are trying to solve I would say
31:17
number one is they want their marketing
31:20
to work essentially they want to see
31:24
increased visibility and the phone
31:27
ringing and making sure that it’s
31:29
driving phone calls from that standpoint
31:31
I would say the second thing is usually
31:35
as barrel and they’ll know that it’s
31:37
messy that its uncontrolled they’re
31:40
spending and they don’t know if it’s
31:41
really working and so they wanted to
31:45
come in and provide clarity on that and
31:48
thirdly usually it’s inconsistency in
31:53
their branding and messaging it’s
31:56
usually they’ll say look I got five
31:58
different marketing pieces I know I need
32:00
to get it together I was told you can
32:02
help streamline this and build a brand
32:05
for us and so those are the three that
32:07
we typically deal with the first one is
32:10
they have just a lack of volume or a
32:12
lack of leads that they’re trying to
32:14
solve obviously right
32:16
the second one is they’re trying to get
32:18
better return on investment for what or
32:21
at least know what their return on
32:23
investment is for everything that’s out
32:24
there they might think it’s hodge podge
32:26
they may not know and the third one is
32:29
they are like not systematic yet it’s
32:32
not dovetail that’s not tied in together
32:35
holistically so those are the three
32:37
major problems that if people are coming
32:40
to you for is that right absolutely wow
32:42
that sounds really I could see that I
32:46
sounds common to a business owner I
32:48
could see how that would be in the range
32:50
of companies that you work with and that
32:52
would be really valuable to solve yeah I
32:54
find number two jumps out to me because
32:56
that’s something I worry about all the
32:58
time or saying hey we’re putting money
32:59
into this but there’s just a concern
33:02
that it’s being you know the efficiency
33:05
is being funneled away somehow this
33:06
particular AdWords campaign it you know
33:09
just you’ve you’ve got holes in it’s
33:11
just your your budgets just leaking out
33:14
and not not actually getting where it’s
33:15
supposed to go whether it’s a broken
33:17
form somewhere or a broken link or wrong
33:20
AdWords or whatever it is it’s just like
33:22
something is bleeding you’re being bled
33:25
your marketing is being bled dry
33:26
basically and you’re not actually
33:28
getting anything for ya and I’m like I
33:30
mean this is like real time right here
33:32
so we’re in talks with the company right
33:34
now and they reached out because they’re
33:38
spending I don’t see the clients name
33:41
but they’re spending 4 grand on
33:43
pay-per-click Google Adwords and they’ve
33:47
noticed a trend and the decline of the
33:51
leads that they’re getting and another
33:53
thing is they quite frankly admitted to
33:56
me they use any execution agency but
34:00
they would never go to them for
34:01
consulting and they were really looking
34:03
for us to drive strategy and consulting
34:05
and see if we could refine what’s going
34:08
on because they know that they also want
34:10
to improve their rankings for my organic
34:12
standpoint to maybe decrease on some of
34:16
that ad spend and and daven and having
34:19
conversations with them you know some of
34:20
the things I look at is okay what you
34:24
should be using some technology that
34:26
contract keywords that converts to calls
34:28
and I would say are we qualifying what
34:32
good would our good calls our bad calls
34:34
and then are we good diving deeper and
34:36
saying this keyword drove 10 or 50 or 20
34:41
quality calls why don’t we take that
34:44
keyword and then develop a quarterly
34:46
theme around it that addresses problems
34:49
but also gives us the traffic to rank
34:52
for that organic word that drops phone
34:54
calls and so they’re like oh I can see
34:57
that working and then why aren’t we also
35:00
deploying that Pacific keyword and all
35:03
of our online presence which consists of
35:06
different profiles and to business
35:08
directories and all that stuff and we
35:11
just improve and they wanted to know if
35:13
it’s even working properly too so it is
35:15
to also dab
35:16
to that data so it’s fascinating what
35:18
you just said we we got to talk more
35:20
about that because we have a specific
35:23
instance in our company where we noticed
35:25
a new Google ad campaign and I don’t
35:28
want to speak ill of Google but here I
35:32
go when we started yeah when we started
35:39
the campaign we were seeing stuff coming
35:41
in from it and it worked well for about
35:44
two weeks things seem to be normal and
35:47
then suddenly it started dropping off
35:48
inbound calls crab traffic from actual
35:52
results and then we turned it off and
35:55
then we turned another variation back on
35:58
and we saw the same thing and my
36:00
paranoia kicked in where I said
36:02
somebody’s funneling the real traffic
36:03
off this is a classic kind of
36:05
fulfillment issue I feel like we’re a
36:08
company will you know initially show you
36:10
results and then once you’re once you’re
36:12
in they don’t have to actually give you
36:14
results anymore they just give you
36:16
something and you’re getting filler and
36:17
I started feeling like hey I think we’re
36:19
getting filler like we’re getting
36:20
traffic but these don’t seem to be real
36:22
people initially they were now they’re
36:24
not and so we got really paranoid about
36:26
it and about Google’s AdWords and
36:28
whether it was actually going anywhere
36:29
whether they were dialing back the type
36:31
of traffic you’re getting and my thought
36:34
was I mean take Google out of the
36:35
picture but any company that has a
36:37
product that’s limited and they have
36:39
more people that want to buy it than
36:40
they have of it so if you’ve got a
36:42
company that can send 500 people
36:44
somewhere in a day but they have you
36:47
know ten thousand people who want those
36:48
people sent to them I mean you saw it
36:52
with Wells Fargo you see it you see
36:54
individual people within an organization
36:57
saying well I I can make a lot more
36:59
money if I just kind of make up these
37:01
other areas if I just start sending
37:03
stuff so we started getting paranoid
37:04
that we were getting fake traffic push
37:07
to our site
37:08
I know years ago I remember seeing there
37:10
was a case where there were hackers that
37:13
were posing as marketers I think out of
37:16
Europe and basically they’re doing
37:18
affiliate marketing and driving traffic
37:19
to sites they weren’t stealing credit
37:21
card information or anything like that
37:22
all these hackers were do signing up for
37:24
these affiliate programs getting a virus
37:26
on people’s computers that would just
37:28
send them to the site
37:29
through their link that they had the
37:31
affiliates with so these people were
37:32
getting massive amounts of web traffic
37:34
and paying these people for it but it
37:36
was all fake traffic
37:37
none of it resulted in sales that didn’t
37:38
turn into leads didn’t go anywhere
37:40
because people were trying to go one
37:41
place and they got redirected the wrong
37:43
place and so I feel like number two for
37:45
me kind of hit on that that paranoia
37:47
that you can put a lot of money into
37:49
something and when you’re talking about
37:50
digital stuff online you don’t really
37:53
know what what who’s coming what you’re
37:55
seeing where it’s going you know you can
37:59
tell you can tell it’s strange you know
38:00
actual leads to sales dropped the sales
38:03
people aren’t seeing what they were
38:04
seeing from it anymore but that’s that’s
38:07
a scary area yeah and dependent you know
38:10
the only thing I could say is gotta have
38:13
that blended approach to the lead
38:15
generation to make sure you got
38:18
different angles at bringing in the
38:21
business first because most people need
38:24
their touch in different formats to
38:27
mediate repeatedly to you know actually
38:30
have a reach out or call to action but
38:32
you also don’t want to be slave to one
38:36
thing and then your life and what’s
38:39
going on yeah one of the things that we
38:41
noticed it was useful when you talk
38:42
about tools for knowing if you’re
38:45
getting calls from a specific campaign
38:46
that kind of stuff was web visit or
38:47
tracking yeah there’s a lot of our stuff
38:49
for driving web traffic and we see
38:51
certain types of hits and from certain
38:53
IPS that map to certain companies and
38:56
then at some point in the campaign
38:57
suddenly it’s coming from all these
38:59
other random areas and when you can
39:02
analyze those numbers and there’s a lot
39:04
of like really expensive inexpensive
39:06
solutions out there for it even seeing
39:08
you know sudden bursts of traffic from
39:11
just from seemingly random places that
39:14
you can tell a lot more of if real
39:16
things are happening even if the people
39:18
don’t convert through you see that that
39:20
it’s a real company hitting your site
39:21
that kind of stuff
39:22
yeah I will tell you too from a is
39:28
really more on social media the real big
39:31
difference today and driving leads on a
39:34
social standpoint you have to be so
39:38
personalized and your messaging that the
39:40
context like you literally have to
39:43
a digital agency owners like you have to
39:46
go so deep so that person actually looks
39:50
at it but it’s so effective when you go
39:53
that narrow that’s one of the things
39:56
about saying that’s more and more from a
39:59
social standpoint whether it’s LinkedIn
40:01
or Facebook you really happen to say
40:04
almost that industry person is named I’m
40:08
in terms of a title and that converts
40:10
better like hey SEO agency owner do you
40:14
hate and it gets their attention oh
40:17
you’re not talking about necessarily
40:18
posts I mean maybe this would be post
40:20
but if you when you put ads up on these
40:22
on the social areas you have to be able
40:24
to speak directly to someone basically
40:26
have a I guess that’s an area where have
40:28
a persona and you might even put a
40:30
specific title out that kind of thing
40:32
but but come up with an actual person
40:34
and just talk to them in your ad yeah I
40:36
mean you can no longer I mean sometimes
40:39
it’s not even good just to say hey small
40:41
business owner if I hate business owner
40:44
with Knab to ten employees do you like
40:47
you have to go with that narrow now now
40:49
I’ve joked with my people about going
40:51
even more narrow where we say hey we
40:53
want to target Patric McFadden put up an
40:56
ad word on like this Patrick Patrick
41:01
over here we want to talk to you about
41:03
this yeah you Patrick McFadden of
41:06
Richmond Virginia
41:07
you know we’re exploring that now with
41:10
one our clients targeting the eight the
41:16
head of procurement for a particular
41:18
department but using it the target the
41:21
employees of this companies and that
41:23
your boss needs to know about X using
41:27
their so we’re actually testing that now
41:30
that’s nice we’ve also joked in the past
41:32
about buying a billboard in front of a
41:34
specific business we want to have as a
41:35
client and just putting the person’s
41:38
name up here hey anybody sees Joe tell
41:40
him to call us email marketing we do it
41:45
in other ways why couldn’t that work
41:47
value to your product then you know you
41:50
can do those kind of much more targeted
41:52
things but you’re saying with social
41:53
media with the ads get as targeted as
41:56
you can
41:57
without going one off like that in your
41:59
ads to really get the returns you’re
42:01
looking for yeah and I have no problem
42:03
with billboards it’s just that the cost
42:05
needs to come down like if billboards
42:07
the cost came down to the actual results
42:10
of it I would spend the money on a
42:13
billboard because it’s all about the
42:15
attention versus the cost
42:17
yeah whatever marketing work that
42:18
billboards work for video games and
42:20
shoes you’re not using them so much for
42:21
you know small business b2b stuff nope
42:24
yeah nothing we always tell people
42:27
there’s a marketing channel for
42:28
everything and you know we have a
42:29
marketing product we provide data and
42:32
it’s not for everybody and sometimes we
42:33
talk to people and find out now they
42:35
need a billboard you know that they
42:37
don’t they don’t need to do emailing and
42:39
calling and that kind of stuff so yeah
42:42
billboards just just a funny example I
42:44
remember it coming up one time for us
42:46
saying what if we targeted a specific
42:48
company this way that we want as a
42:50
client would that work and I remember
42:52
our conversation came around – yeah the
42:54
cost value just isn’t there you can’t do
42:57
that it’s just way too expensive per and
43:00
way too much work but it was a fun
43:03
project to think about oh absolutely
43:05
that leads me to my I have a point of
43:08
view on that – that always say every
43:11
tactic works and it’s determined by the
43:13
strategy and works somewhere again yeah
43:15
you have to make sure it’s the right
43:17
tactic for your somewhere yep in my
43:20
opponent like if it’s determined by the
43:22
strategy which is who was our clients
43:24
how do we best reach them where they
43:26
hang out if it’s determined by the
43:28
strategy then it’s typically it will
43:30
work so speaking of that you mentioned
43:33
an example earlier of a campaign or two
43:36
where you’d helped people can you give
43:38
us a couple examples of kind of fails
43:41
when you’re working with people either
43:43
you know something they did that
43:44
sabotage having success or or a misstep
43:48
that you made and learn from work with a
43:50
client absolutely I would say we early
43:53
on we had taken on this client know was
43:57
they’re heavy b2b but they’re b2b is
44:01
fortune 500 companies and it didn’t turn
44:06
out well primarily because first
44:11
and we made a mistake we interviewed the
44:15
internal team but we didn’t get a chance
44:18
to interview the clients of our client
44:22
and I think that team willed the
44:24
strategy in terms of tactics the
44:27
tactical implementation a little bit and
44:29
it didn’t turn into a good engagement we
44:32
weren’t able to provide the results that
44:34
they really needed and in really what
44:36
they needed was more sales people out
44:40
there pounding the pavement making the
44:43
phone calls this was very relationship
44:45
driven we were taking sort of a 75%
44:50
online 25% offline but it can lift it
44:54
should have been 75% off behind 25%
44:58
online I guess that’s where you
45:00
mentioned earlier the kind of marketing
45:01
centric tactic that’s not that’s not the
45:04
best model for every company and that
45:06
may have been a little off on on this
45:08
one you know marketing is an initial
45:10
touch a little bit and then there’s a
45:12
whole lot of sales absolutely so that’s
45:16
hot it definitely taught me you’ve got
45:18
to go even more narrow about who you can
45:21
best serve and who you can best help on
45:24
with the services you provide and so
45:27
they did give me a chance to revamp
45:29
about who we best serve and how we
45:32
provide the services that we that we do
45:35
so this definitely wasn’t and Mike
45:41
really helped you focus on your
45:43
audiences didn’t it yeah fortune 500 I
45:47
feel like a lot of steak dinners and
45:49
sales people is way you have to have for
45:52
that you’ve really got to be golfing
45:55
with them and then going into dinners
45:58
and taking thing for their family
46:01
vacations and stuff
46:03
well it’s heavy relationship driven but
46:08
you know looking back I think the best
46:11
way to actually do it and it’s hard
46:15
because they have to have so many
46:17
conversations with so many people to
46:21
actually drill down to what’s the core
46:23
thing
46:24
trying to do you know you’re dealing
46:26
with different size departments and hey
46:28
it’s I really looking back I think the
46:31
best way we probably could have helped
46:33
them was to and this is where I knew it
46:35
would have been a good fit we would have
46:37
to go very deep on a contextual of
46:39
information and say like this person
46:42
wants to address this here’s are some
46:43
information on that but it’s you’re
46:45
probably looking at 10 to 12 personas
46:47
right when we just didn’t have the
46:50
resources to execute that fine
46:59
you
