This week on the If You Market podcast we talk with Jasmine Sandler about how to be B2B famous. It’s all about turning yourself into a B2B thought leader and influencer.
Jasmine Sandler is considered by Google, LinkedIn and other key Internet Marketing organizations as a Top Digital marketing thought-leader with over 200 Digital Marketing company client plans and programs delivered, as well as 400+ Social Media and SEO Keynote presentations to corporate and member-associations audiences. Jasmine started and sold a sport and music driven social network before Facebook was an entity. Jasmine is called “the real-deal” by many social media influencers and digital marketing practitioners.
As a leader with over 15 years of client experience as the Founder and CEO of Agent-cy Online Marketing, Jasmine acts as a consultant and trainer on all aspects of Digital Marketing including Digital Marketing Strategy , Social Media Marketing , Social Selling, Personal Branding , LinkedIn Marketing , Search Engine Optimization (SEO) , Search Engine Marketing (PPC/SEM) , Online Branding , Influencer Marketing, Online Revenue Modeling , Web Project Management and Online PR.
Jasmine coaches executives of large organizations, agency leaders, entrepreneurs and sales and marketing corporate teams on Digital Marketing initiatives that drive online brand awareness, fan growth and sales. She works on both an individual and group level, and offers both live and online programs.
She is a Keynote Speaker on Social Media Marketing strategies, specifically Personal Branding and Social Media for entrepreneurial and executive audiences looking for the keys to real online thought-leadership and audience development.. Jasmine has authored 3 books on Social Media Marketing and SEO, as well as contributed to series on advanced Digital marketing techniques for Forbes, Inc, Fast Company, Entreprenuer.com and many other online marketing publications.
As a speaker, leader and coach, Jasmine has inspired and educated audiences of global organizations and associations. A sample list follows:
- Access Intelligence
- Cision
- Clear Law Institute
- Leo Burnett Agency
- Medtronic
- Thomson Reuters
- SAP
- Keller Williams
- UBS
- Northwest Mutual Insurance
- Oppenheimer Funds
- CKO Kickboxing
- Acronym Media
- CISO Connect for Fortune 500 CISO’s
- NYU
- Wharton
- Manhattan Chamber of Commerce
- Digital Marketing World Forum
- Search Engine Strategies Conference series
- Women’s Leadership Forum
- NY Tech MeetUp
- Marketing Executive Networking Group
- NYXPO
- Vistage International
- Influencer Marketing Days
Jasmine is a member of several speaker bureaus. Her library of talks, speaker reel and samples of her speeches, as well as hundreds of consult client testimonials can be found on www.jasminesandler.com. For her online courses and books visit https://courses.jasminesandler.com
Subscribe to the If You Market Podcast on iTunes: www.goo.gl/nfMMtW
Youtube: https://youtu.be/UJJJs4FNrQc
Contact Jasmine Sandler
www.jasminesandler.com
www.agent-cy.com
Books and courses: www.courses.jasminesandler.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/onlinebranding/
www.brandyouconference.com B2B executive and entrepreneurial conference
November 27, 2018
Both online and in person (Midtown Manhattan, NY)
Email Jasmine with interest in this conference and she will send you a free digital copy of her book on Personal Branding and Social Media and will draw one person to get a free conference ticket.
Download Jasmine’s Personal Branding checklist
Book Recommendation: The Power of Focus, by Jack Canfield
If you have questions about the If You Market podcast or would like to suggest a guest, please email us at info@IfYouMarket.com.
You can subscribe to The If You Market Podcast on apple iTunes or where ever you get your podcasts.
Transcript:
00:10
thank you for listening to the if you
thank you for listening to the if you
00:12
market podcast I’m your host sky Cassidy
00:14
our co-host will be will be out today
00:17
unfortunately but we’re gonna be talking
00:19
about how to use social media to become
00:22
a thought leader and social media
00:24
thought leadership in general with
00:26
Jasmine Sandler jasmine is the founder
00:29
and CEO of Jas media and agency online
00:32
marketing and is considered by Google
00:34
LinkedIn in other internet marketing
00:36
organizations as a top b2b digital
00:38
marketing thought leader she’s delivered
00:41
over 200 digital marketing company’
00:42
client plans and four hundred-plus b2b
00:45
social media and SEO keynote
00:47
presentations to corporate and member
00:49
association audiences we are thrilled to
00:51
have Jasmine here with us today
00:53
thanks for coming on Jasmine thank you
00:55
for having me sky I’m just as excited as
00:57
you are
00:58
I love the b2b audience yes so social
01:01
media thought leadership
01:03
you are quite a social media thought
01:06
leader yourself that’s the general topic
01:09
today I want to start out a little more
01:11
about you though and about your company
01:13
so people can get some some framework to
01:16
where we’re coming from how did you get
01:18
into b2b marketing yeah that’s a good
01:20
question so I I’ll just I’ll just go
01:24
back a little bit before I get into my
01:26
IBM days but when I when I was in school
01:30
very early on I kind of fell in love
01:33
with two things interestingly enough
01:36
branding and the nature of how business
01:39
works from a kind of like business
01:40
partnership perspective so I when I
01:44
decided to you know really launch my
01:48
career after grad school I went to IBM
01:50
and you know I gotta tell you that I was
01:53
trained by the best so I went to IBM and
01:57
I you know I got a double mba in
01:59
marketing and CIS but really I really
02:02
want to understand business so when I
02:04
worked for IBM my role was you know in
02:07
the managed data services networking
02:10
group which is all of which is like the
02:12
very early day
02:13
I’m talking ETI VPNs free public
02:16
internet stuff right and my my role was
02:19
marketing and developing partnerships
02:21
for b2b companies to connect together
02:24
and build audiences both intranet and
02:27
extranet as they called it back then so
02:30
I’ve been in it for a very very long
02:32
time and my my in what I do today and
02:38
the types of clients that I work with
02:40
and audiences that I serve I like
02:42
working with people that that are
02:45
intelligent and think in a detailed way
02:48
and see big see the big picture and I
02:51
just early on decided that those were
02:53
people in b2b versus b2c it’s it’s just
02:56
a different it’s a different structure
02:58
the way that business is done is very
03:00
different and it’s as we’ll get into
03:02
today it’s really about relationship
03:05
development and thought leadership and
03:07
and that’s what I I enjoy about it
03:10
Thanks one no I noticed that I think
03:13
you’d started a sport and music social
03:17
media site like way back before Facebook
03:20
and and you ended up selling it is that
03:21
right yeah yeah I so when I left IBM it
03:26
was very early on I think it was yeah it
03:29
was early 2000 and I did very well at
03:33
IBM and I said you know what I do I want
03:36
to continue on with this or do I want to
03:38
go do something on my own you know and I
03:40
already had this idea for social network
03:43
and back then it was called an online
03:45
community I mean that it wasn’t called a
03:47
social network yeah you thought this
03:49
this internet thing might be big yeah I
03:52
thought this internet thing might be big
03:54
I also saw this internet thing as a way
03:57
to bring people together that were
03:59
enthusiasts and that was the whole point
04:01
behind the social network which was
04:03
called extreme connections that was the
04:05
name of the social network and it was
04:06
about enthusiasts and so we covered we
04:10
covered 30 different kind of action
04:12
sports and and we worked with all these
04:15
different music partners like you know
04:17
such as like Sony and EMI and Universal
04:20
and and worked with quite a bit of folks
04:24
in the world of media as well as
04:28
kind of general sports manufacturing and
04:29
the whole purpose was to develop an
04:31
audience around their love for these
04:34
different sports and their loves and
04:35
music and create a platform where they
04:39
could nurture those relationships
04:40
through things like promotions and
04:43
giveaways so at that time actually I was
04:46
fairly young actually and I was one of
04:48
the youngest people to be involved with
04:50
the promotion Marketing Association so
04:52
so yeah I saw the opportunity really
04:55
going towards the internet as a way to
04:59
like as away from the traditional kind
05:02
of promotional advertising that had been
05:04
up to that point I mean these audiences
05:08
to have a community online kind of and
05:11
that’s pre myspace probably yeah the
05:14
x-games really being something well it
05:16
was during yeah worked I ended up
05:18
working with the guys over it
05:19
ESPN and I worked with the action sport
05:24
tour which was I think it was an ABC
05:26
property I was so many years ago I can’t
05:28
remember at this woman but um but yeah
05:30
that was like in 2002 it was 2002 about
05:34
2004 and then mmm and then after that
05:38
you know I had I tell people that that
05:40
is where I really feel that I earn my
05:44
stripes in the world of what I do today
05:46
because I 2000 or that’s one Facebook
05:49
started I think yeah I think it was well
05:51
are you telling me you sold your your
05:53
company to Facebook and they you you got
05:57
out and sold your company at the same
05:59
time they were coming in that’s great
06:00
yeah been in social media so is smarter
06:03
or what I sold it to them yeah but
06:08
anyway so go ahead I’d say you’ve been
06:10
in social media from the beginning
06:12
basically yeah since if you had an early
06:15
successful social media company before
06:17
anything anybody knows I don’t know how
06:19
many people listening even remember
06:21
MySpace no spoiler alert they’re
06:24
actually still around they kept the same
06:25
name for some reason absolutely well I
06:27
mean it has equity right so that’s what
06:30
they told me I met him at an event and I
06:31
said yeah bad equity I don’t know yeah
06:35
it was a big myspace lover so
06:37
yep I loved it until they started
06:39
everything started glittering and I’d
06:40
never seen anyway glitter everywhere you
06:43
couldn’t see anything everyone’s
06:45
sparkling and moving and yeah but my
06:50
social media now let’s connect that to
06:53
thought leadership you’ve been in this
06:55
in this field for a long time and and
06:59
back through to b2b marketing what was
07:01
the path and you spoke a little bit
07:03
about IBM and coming through from there
07:05
and finding kind of your love for b2b
07:07
marketing how did that how did you get
07:09
from there to to where you are today yes
07:11
so after the sale of that social network
07:14
I kind of went out there and started
07:17
consulting for other agencies and one of
07:20
the agencies that I ended up consulting
07:22
for for a few years was kind of like SMB
07:25
type actually more of a creative shop
07:28
than anything and I helped them really
07:31
break into providing their clients with
07:33
social media strategies and digital
07:35
marketing programs right and so we ended
07:37
up doing some work for some nonprofits
07:40
and also supporting some local
07:43
politicians in terms of developing these
07:45
this is what I do right I do online
07:47
audience development I’ve been doing it
07:48
forever and so when in the process of
07:52
doing that work you know what I
07:54
constantly came up with was were
07:56
strategies around igniting the human
08:00
element right around creating community
08:02
leaders online about creating content
08:05
that people could kind of circle around
08:07
because it was important to them and you
08:12
know and that’s where I saw this whole
08:13
well I don’t even know if I recognized
08:16
it then right but it shaped into what
08:19
now that I deliver and have seen with a
08:21
lot of my clients is the opportunity for
08:23
individuals to brand themselves online
08:26
and become thought leaders by becoming
08:28
what I’ve always called like I always
08:30
use this Airport analogy you know this
08:32
hub-and-spoke type of thing which is you
08:35
know like if you look at it you know any
08:38
Airport map right I don’t know I guess
08:41
I’m on planes a lot um there you know
08:43
there’s like the hub and then there’s a
08:45
spokes around that and that’s what I
08:47
think of when I think of a thought
08:49
leader the thought leader is the man or
08:51
in this case I call it social branding
08:54
right that’s online that is there to be
08:57
that thought leader in other words that
08:59
person is committed to a position that
09:01
person has committed to that position
09:03
because there’s some value in it whether
09:05
it’s related to the value of that
09:06
individual like in the case of like the
09:09
work that I do for all these
09:11
organizations where I I’m a resource for
09:13
career you know career building or more
09:15
importantly in this case it’s for the
09:18
individual CEO or managing director or
09:21
marketing director that wants to be the
09:24
spokesperson for that company and so
09:27
what they’re doing is they’re building a
09:28
brand of thought leadership so in
09:30
essence they’re becoming in an
09:31
influencer around their customers around
09:33
their partners and even their employees
09:36
so I don’t know if they’re interesting
09:38
question but is that yeah I’m sure we
09:41
got it in there is that typically when
09:43
it comes to the thought leadership and
09:45
I’ve had this bounce around from a
09:47
couple different people um that company
09:49
didn’t want to build somebody as a
09:51
thought leader because investing that
09:54
time and energy and you know if they
09:56
weren’t a founder or something like that
09:58
in a marketing director or VP they would
10:02
just eventually take all that that value
10:04
somewhere else so they instead would
10:07
focus on the brand they wouldn’t create
10:08
any thought leadership what are your
10:10
thoughts around around that well that’s
10:13
a good question so yeah there there is I
10:17
guess that companies that tend to not do
10:19
that or maybe fear doing that the ones
10:22
that I have been involved with a lot of
10:24
times a lot of times it’s it’s a time
10:28
issue that they have and you know
10:31
because so so I work with quite a number
10:33
of CMOS right and they’re they’re really
10:36
busy people even CEOs so they generally
10:38
don’t they don’t have the time and they
10:40
really want to focus I want their role
10:41
and responsibility is however what I
10:45
edit them on is this is part of your
10:48
role and responsibility because you’re a
10:49
leader in an organization right so you
10:53
so it needs to kind of it needs to be
10:55
that and let somebody else run the
10:58
report and you focus on being a
10:59
figurehead kind of yeah I mean that’s
11:02
and at the end of the day it’s only
11:03
gonna benefit them
11:04
you know because yeah because because
11:07
I’ve worked with many clients where they
11:10
resist that or they don’t have the right
11:14
person and many times it’s just I mean I
11:17
just thinking of all the training
11:18
trainings that I’ve delivered and many
11:21
times it’s just about about the fact
11:24
that it actually comes more naturally
11:25
than organizations might think so for
11:28
example I had this client last year up
11:30
in Boston which is where I’m from that’s
11:33
a plug for Boston because a big fan but
11:34
anyway so so they so they do HR
11:38
outsourcing they and they sell b2b and
11:41
so anyway so I was training you know
11:45
this sales and marketing group on
11:46
advanced LinkedIn sales techniques which
11:48
I’ve done a million times over and and I
11:51
was trying to hone in on the fact that
11:53
they need to decide who it is it’s kind
11:54
of carry the ball forward and it was
11:57
just this one sales guy who I start to
11:59
kind of get in deep with in terms of you
12:03
know how does he work with clients and
12:04
what is he doing a local Boston area
12:06
right like what conference is he is he
12:08
involved with what industry sector is he
12:11
in the case of this organization right
12:12
he was in charge of the financial
12:14
services sector client base right in
12:17
Boston so you know how can he become a
12:21
figure without detracting right from the
12:25
organization without in see like I think
12:28
you were alluding to singling him out so
12:30
that he could then take this and run
12:31
somewhere else so he becomes the product
12:34
then if the company’s not really
12:37
investing in the company they’re
12:38
investing in in that individual and it
12:41
you know the ROI is possibly for a
12:43
competitor or you know once they create
12:46
this this thought leader now the person
12:49
has all this leverage to go you know
12:51
find a better deal somewhere to to bring
12:53
their talents elsewhere yeah I guess I
12:55
mean when you’re looking to be a thought
12:56
leader is it something that typically
12:58
individuals say hey I’d like to become a
13:01
thought leader in this space or do you
13:03
see more often that it’s companies
13:05
saying like okay we need a thought
13:07
leader in-house who’s it going to be
13:09
yeah I you know what it’s generally it
13:12
generally comes from the individual I’m
13:14
just thinking of the all the clients I
13:17
would say it’s more for
13:18
the individual then the company so when
13:22
I get when I get phone calls right like
13:24
for the last few years I’ve have been
13:26
very honored to be able to have work
13:28
with Roche Diagnostics as a client and I
13:31
haven’t been working with the company
13:32
like the company didn’t call me and say
13:35
hey you know what we have this
13:36
company-wide initiative I mean they have
13:37
so much going on they’re humongous
13:38
company but the individual executives
13:41
called me and said hey someone saw you
13:43
speak you know about personal branding
13:46
for executives can we work with you
13:48
individually and it’s turned into this
13:49
mountain of clients that are all
13:51
individuals but what they’re looking to
13:53
do is they not necessarily looking to
13:54
leave the company they’re looking to
13:57
raise their salary at their company
13:59
they’re looking to get on boards they’re
14:01
looking to go to their HR teams and
14:04
their corporate communication teams and
14:06
say hey you know what this leadership
14:08
stuff is really important for our
14:10
company because if the tail end of the
14:12
day what is it gonna do right it will
14:14
raise the stock value of a public
14:16
company it will get them more company
14:19
wins on RFPs I mean there’s just
14:21
tremendous value but usually the
14:24
initiative at least for me has been an
14:27
individual of a company calls and says
14:30
hey you know what this thought
14:32
leadership stuff how can I help my
14:34
company and so what that looks like a
14:37
lot of times especially with law firms
14:39
that I’ve worked with it’s not about one
14:42
partner it’s about all their partners
14:45
it’s about associates and associates and
14:47
partners and and them actually becoming
14:49
thought leaders within their individual
14:52
practice areas and that’s really
14:54
important if any for who’s ever on here
14:56
that’s in b2b that’s where the most the
14:59
wins are for you to become a thought
15:02
leader in an individual practice area
15:04
because that’s where you can really
15:06
commit to something and build a
15:08
differentiator and then I guess if
15:11
companies are looking for a thought
15:12
leader they’re not necessarily gonna say
15:13
let’s grow one they’re just gonna buy
15:15
one and so once you become one they’re
15:18
gonna look to byhe which is why they
15:20
probably don’t want to grow one because
15:21
somebody’s gonna buy it out from under
15:23
them yeah potentially I just haven’t I
15:25
mean I really haven’t run into that at
15:29
least in my in my work so much it’s
15:31
usually the
15:32
development of internal thought leaders
15:35
and in the case of influencers which
15:39
would be a little bit different and
15:40
subject matter experts of which you know
15:42
we bring them in when we need to for our
15:44
clients we are usually that’s something
15:48
that we’re is part of a marketing
15:51
program right so if they if they if they
15:53
want to bring in someone else to carry
15:54
their message forward that’s a matter
15:57
that’s just a matter of bringing in
15:58
really the influencer or subject subject
16:00
matter expert to provide content and be
16:03
a part of a campaign so that’s my
16:04
experience right yeah you’re gonna hire
16:07
a spokesperson not kind of create one
16:10
from from whole cloth yeah but if people
16:13
want to become this that’s that’s kind
16:15
of their their initiative to make it
16:17
happen for themselves yeah yeah I mean I
16:19
I would hope you know at the end of the
16:21
day a lot of the conversations I have
16:23
with larger b2b companies is is
16:28
something that I think not I think but I
16:32
know we’ll just become more relevant you
16:37
know probably in 2019 if I was like
16:39
thinking about trends and that is
16:42
definitely around advocacy right so so
16:47
that the point of that is that if they
16:50
don’t start to think about like you were
16:55
talking about you know instead of buying
16:57
that spokesperson grooming and growing
17:00
the thought leaders if they don’t do
17:02
that and they don’t do it in the right
17:04
way what’s gonna happen is it and I’ve
17:06
seen it with my clients that there
17:07
becomes like this division especially
17:09
when you talk about with a millennial
17:11
work force between the employees and the
17:13
leaders because a leaders job is to be a
17:15
role they’re a Java are really to be
17:17
role models right and so if they are
17:19
positioned as a thought leader part part
17:22
of that job is to be a role model for
17:24
the employees and that all of this can
17:25
only benefit a company so believe me I
17:27
have these would you recommend all the
17:29
time big big companies would you
17:31
recommend they start like a thought
17:33
leadership farm League within their
17:35
company oh yeah I mean that’s what I’ve
17:36
been really trying to hit home with with
17:39
verge Diagnostics because but you know
17:41
it’s a multi-billion dollar company out
17:43
of Switzerland width that’s actually
17:46
restructured a couple of times since I
17:49
started working with them so to make
17:50
that happen it just requires a lot of
17:52
time and commitment from different
17:55
leaders within the organization but how
17:57
that what that looks like that I would
17:58
recommend is something as simple that
18:01
I’ve seen with my client whether it’s
18:02
Roche Diagnostics or Johnson & Johnson
18:04
or inter call corporation or whomever is
18:06
to do something that’s program driven
18:09
right so the reason I started working
18:11
with Roche which might be interesting is
18:13
because they’re two of their leaders
18:16
within diversity and inclusion came to
18:20
me and that’s a program right that’s a
18:23
program that they really actually do it
18:26
one of the best jobs I’ve ever seen as a
18:28
company really investing in building
18:30
leadership around diversity and
18:32
inclusion both on the male and male and
18:34
female side are both involved with
18:37
moving that program forward right
18:39
so it’s anyways it’s about a you know in
18:42
that case it’s about a specific program
18:44
if they already have as a company you
18:46
see what I mean
18:47
so so it’s developing leaders around
18:49
that platform and then a lot of the
18:52
content that spills out when we do
18:54
social branding is content that’s
18:56
derived from what they did in that
18:59
program right with the leaders behind
19:02
the scenes that are the thought leaders
19:04
within the organization awesome and then
19:09
I guess it comes around to social media
19:10
I mean why is why social media the place
19:13
to to do this kind of stuff well number
19:16
one is that this is where you build a
19:19
community and in the audience these days
19:20
and I’m not talking so much about
19:22
selling because we could do a whole
19:24
nother podcast on social selling but
19:26
around branding it really is a place
19:30
where the individuals can create their
19:33
own brand and create a following in an
19:35
audience I mean I see it happen with my
19:37
clients every second you know if they’re
19:39
doing if they are putting out the
19:43
content that is directly related to
19:46
their brand and what the needs are of
19:48
the audience and if they’re also aware
19:53
of content that’s out there that’s
19:55
relevant to their audience which is not
19:57
original content so maybe it’s third
19:58
party
19:59
you know industry content if they’re
20:02
doing a good job of that what happens
20:04
naturally is that their continual would
20:06
build their own influence and their own
20:08
audience I guess back to what you said
20:11
in the beginning it’s a-you know they’re
20:13
the hub and then you have all the other
20:15
spikes and these platforms right it’s a
20:20
distribution point so a perfect example
20:22
is you know my agency we probably
20:24
partnered with many agencies like I’m a
20:27
big believer in partnerships and so you
20:31
know a lot of times agencies will just
20:34
design something or maybe they’ll create
20:36
a campaign but without the distribution
20:39
of that campaign or that content it
20:41
can’t go anywhere and it can’t live you
20:45
know and it can’t create impact so
20:49
luckily social media has grown up a lot
20:52
you know I mean all the platforms are so
20:54
sophisticated right so and I guess it
20:57
was almost a question but the reason why
20:59
I asked the question was it was a it was
21:01
a no duh of you know why social cores
21:03
developing this and it’s because you
21:06
know that’s where that’s what social
21:08
media is designed for is for forming
21:10
these kind of communities and it also
21:12
helps that it’s you know the
21:13
democratization of being able to do this
21:15
anybody can go and start start a
21:17
community if you have something valuable
21:18
to say you know you can you can start to
21:21
turn yourself into a hub for for that
21:24
particular area so sorry to throw that
21:29
at you that sounds like something I was
21:30
expecting you to come back but you
21:33
nailed it okay yeah no no problem you
21:35
said I could ramble right so excuse me
21:37
fern oh yeah
21:41
thought leadership social media we’ve
21:44
kind of wrapped it all together now now
21:46
let’s kind of let’s get into the meat of
21:48
it a little bit for it here before we
21:49
before we take a break give people
21:51
somewhat of a teaser a teaser on this
21:55
becoming a b2b thought-leader
21:59
obviously social media we’re thinking
22:01
about LinkedIn primarily I’m sure the
22:03
other platforms come into place quite a
22:05
bit as well but do you have a general
22:09
outline for people that come to you and
22:10
just say hey I want to be a thought
22:11
leader in this area
22:13
what do I do yeah um like how do people
22:15
get started what’s the first steps so
22:18
one do you need a specific kind of
22:19
person yes yes excellent question
22:22
I love that questions guy so I look to
22:25
work with specific types of people in
22:26
terms of like the one-on-one work you
22:28
know anyway because they need to be what
22:31
I found that the commonalities across
22:34
any individual clients that I work with
22:37
that succeed are these things one they
22:41
have to be driven I mean it’s a
22:43
no-brainer but it’s important to they
22:47
have to really be committed to doing
22:49
this because unfortunately it’s not done
22:52
overnight unless you write some pop song
22:55
with some label picks up I’m joking but
22:57
I’m also serious I’m also a singer so I
23:00
already make music well yeah you have
23:02
the consumer side with like the
23:05
Kardashians and stuff like that they’re
23:07
thought leaders I can they get paid to
23:09
show up at a club and just sit there and
23:11
and whatnot right cuz but yeah that’s
23:13
that kind of a flash of consumer
23:16
attention a little bit different in
23:17
might be I think what you were saying
23:19
the beginning but what drives a lot of
23:21
us to b2b is you have to actually be
23:22
good at it so it’s kind of a higher bar
23:25
and then then the consumer side where
23:28
you can just throw some yeah and so the
23:30
individual clients that I’ve worked with
23:31
across all of them they all have
23:34
something specific that they want to do
23:35
right so they’re all different and I’ll
23:37
just give you some examples so I’ve
23:39
worked with I’m just thinking so if I
23:41
break them out right into segments one
23:44
type of client I always tend to work
23:46
with our our b2b folks that are looking
23:50
for investors for something or buy into
23:55
something and they need to build a brand
23:57
they want to build their value by
23:58
building the brand around they want to
24:00
build their value but they also want to
24:02
make sure that when somebody who owns
24:04
them right because the in alignment I
24:06
also do SEO but but that is not
24:08
important what’s important is when
24:09
somebody Google’s them or they look them
24:11
up on LinkedIn or wherever they’re going
24:14
to find them that that presence right is
24:17
of the highest value and its current and
24:19
it aligns with what that individual or
24:22
company might be investing in right so
24:24
purely that’s very
24:26
important as far as a goal the second
24:28
goal I would say that where people
24:31
really succeed and I would say the
24:33
majority of the clients I work with are
24:34
looking to become speakers now whether
24:38
that’s a mmm so there’s two reasons for
24:41
that so one is they want to become a
24:43
speaker because they want to drive
24:45
visibility and an audience around their
24:46
business or the company that they work
24:49
for their organization or their unit or
24:50
something like that and then secondarily
24:53
and this is much more work on our end is
24:56
we get them about there is paid speakers
24:58
right so and this is a lot of folks
25:00
because you know they’ve done their time
25:02
like maybe they’ve worked for a number
25:04
of years and you know what now they want
25:06
to get paid for their value speakers so
25:08
that’s another one and then
25:11
similarily I would say that the thought
25:15
leaders that I’ve worked with whether
25:17
individually or the training you know as
25:20
thought leaders they want to have
25:24
something published now whether that’s a
25:26
report a number of a reports a book a
25:27
group of books maybe they want to start
25:30
a podcast you know that they have some
25:33
it’s something specific that they that
25:35
they know they want to do because it has
25:37
value right so so these are the more of
25:42
the senior level folks right so if they
25:46
have it they they are a good fit for
25:48
this to become thought leaders because
25:50
the driven they have a commitment they
25:52
have a knowledge base like you mentioned
25:53
right and they have specific goals and
25:58
joke right so I guess yeah the specific
26:00
goals I guess the people I was gonna ask
26:01
you what people fail and then I’ll throw
26:05
it out there and you just tell me if I’m
26:07
tell me how wrong I am but it seems like
26:09
the people who just want to do it
26:10
because it sounds cool yeah
26:12
would a big boy let me let me just I’m
26:15
gonna answer do I want to address that
26:16
but I just want to tag on to what I was
26:18
saying just just because I don’t know
26:20
who’s listening so the other people that
26:22
are actually very important that I
26:24
haven’t mentioned are the people that
26:27
maybe they don’t have yet like most of
26:30
my individual clients right they
26:31
generally have I’m talking about the
26:33
ones that you know we really build and
26:35
get out there they generally have at
26:36
least 10 years of experience maybe 15
26:38
right but
26:39
more junior people underneath that like
26:42
so let’s say you’re a marketing manager
26:43
even a marketing coordinator or a
26:45
marketing director or VP of Marketing
26:47
right but maybe you don’t have years and
26:49
years of experience maybe you haven’t
26:50
written reports and do it done all of
26:52
that but you want to again it’s about
26:54
personal branding is all about
26:55
increasing your value right so thought
26:58
leadership so maybe they want to build
26:59
which I do quite a bit which is building
27:01
up your value to be able to go from
27:04
let’s say I don’t know I depends on
27:06
where you’re live right I live in New
27:07
York so everything is ridiculously
27:09
expensive but let’s say you want to go
27:10
from eighty thousand dollars a year to a
27:13
hundred thousand dollars a year within
27:14
your own company so I’ve seen that work
27:18
just as well for those type of
27:21
individuals that really want to build
27:22
their brand and do something so they can
27:24
either go back to their boss and say hey
27:27
you know what I did this within this
27:29
time frame like launched a program
27:31
internally or got employees rallied
27:33
around something or helped to work with
27:35
my sales team right to grow more sales
27:38
something that they want to make happen
27:40
and it can happen through the branding
27:42
exercise and through thought leadership
27:43
that’s another audience I really don’t
27:45
want to dismiss because they’re kind of
27:47
equally important right and I guess they
27:50
would say I did all this and I have this
27:52
many more Twitter followers nowadays you
27:55
know I have this community on LinkedIn
27:57
that that I created that has this many
27:59
people in it but you’ve heard on the
28:03
consumer side but I’ve heard nowadays
28:05
when they when they bring on actors for
28:07
movies and stuff like that one of the
28:08
big things they consider is how many
28:10
social media followers you have and
28:13
don’t bring people on like why are why
28:15
are these celebrities doing these
28:16
voiceovers and they’re like yeah we
28:17
could have one guy do all the voices but
28:19
he doesn’t have all the Twitter
28:20
followers and they can’t push all the
28:22
people and make it a success like oh wow
28:23
they’re not even buying the acting
28:25
skills they’re just buying oh don’t tell
28:26
that to my acting friends happy but no
28:34
it’s true I mean anything you know we’re
28:37
talking about marketing we’re talking
28:39
about branding and thought leadership
28:39
but at the end of day anything you want
28:41
to sell these days you know you have to
28:45
have influence and if that influence is
28:47
around a volume of number on a social
28:49
platform or if the influence is how many
28:51
people sit and listen to it
28:53
conference you have to have some type of
28:55
influence right at the end of the day
28:58
but I wanted to write you got a you
29:01
can’t you it doesn’t really yeah so what
29:02
I just wanted to address your point
29:04
before that you asked me which is around
29:06
people that fail at this exercise and so
29:12
becoming a kind of true thought leader
29:16
is not an inexpensive proposition right
29:19
so if you’re not willing to invest time
29:21
and money into it whether it’s with my
29:24
company or it’s an internal program
29:26
that’s run by somebody else and whatever
29:28
that generally fails because it
29:30
unfortunately takes time and money and
29:31
then I would say secondly a really
29:35
important point is failure happens on
29:39
this and I’m just thinking of some
29:41
clients I’d have worked with in the past
29:43
because they weren’t focused and I so I
29:46
you know as somebody in my world
29:49
and I try to educate myself as much as
29:51
possible for podcasts and reading and
29:53
write books and things like that but my
29:55
number one book of all time it’s a book
29:56
called focus and it’s one of the it’s
30:00
the the initial exercise I go through
30:02
with my individual clients the first
30:04
thing I do is sit them down to
30:07
understand what their specific focus is
30:10
because if you have more than one focus
30:13
and you’re trying to invest in multiple
30:16
areas of focus it doesn’t work so I
30:18
would say that that is really important
30:21
to understand for anyone that wants to
30:23
become a thought leader so focus as a
30:25
book recommendation right here oh yeah
30:29
mine is all ripped up and has okay so
30:37
sorry I had to I had I had to turn her
30:40
and know that you don’t understand how
30:41
old this book is I have it in front of
30:43
me
30:43
and it’s oh no this is the best book
30:45
I’ve ever read so I have literally
30:48
highlights if I get to take a picture to
30:50
you and laugh about the things I wrote
30:51
in this book but it’s called it’s it’s
30:53
by Jack Canfield and I don’t even know
30:55
how old this book is but if this book
30:58
has really helped my career over the
31:00
years I always refer to it it’s an old
31:02
book it’s called the power of focus and
31:04
how to get your business personal and
31:06
financial
31:06
targets with absolute certainty it’s my
31:08
favorite book and this book takes you
31:10
through exercises and what I found with
31:12
most of my clients as you can imagine
31:16
leaders especially you know people that
31:20
it tend to be entrepreneurs they
31:22
generally are more type-a because so-so
31:25
focus is really important for them and
31:27
that’s why yeah a bit yeah I was trying
31:29
to be nice about it so they tend to jump
31:34
everywhere I’ve maybe that means I
31:36
there’s a hope for me yet but people are
31:38
always telling me I gotta focus and stop
31:40
saying it so much yeah excellent
31:42
I will definitely read it I think that’s
31:45
a good spot to lead off for the first
31:46
half here we’re gonna take a quick break
31:48
and we’ll come back and dig in with a
31:50
lot more than nuts and bolts of this
31:52
social media thought leadership and then
31:55
building that for yourself better
31:57
listeners hi this is Daniel boss from
32:02
GoToWebinar I’m the chief webinar
32:04
Wrangler here at GoToWebinar where we’re
32:07
the largest webinar platform in the
32:09
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free trials and give the product a spin
32:25
all right we’re back from the break this
32:27
is Skye Cassidy your host for the if you
32:29
market podcast I have Jasmine Sandler
32:33
here with me the founder and CEO of Jas
32:35
media and agency online marketing we’re
32:37
talking about social media thought
32:38
leadership Jasmine right before the
32:41
break we I distracted a little bit we
32:44
were talking about kind of the
32:45
characteristics needed you mentioned
32:47
driven you mentioned committed we got in
32:49
a little bit into the being focused on a
32:53
specific subject matter you want to pick
32:54
things up there I’ve got focused and
32:56
passion down here can you speak to those
32:58
two kind of characteristics absolutely
33:01
so like I said I mean we were talking
33:03
about how to almost ensure your success
33:06
in this area so having a focus and an
33:10
absolute passion around the subject
33:12
matter where you have practical
33:14
experience and you also have a good
33:17
knowledge base is is extremely important
33:19
because without those two things either
33:22
you’re not gonna come off as authentic
33:24
which to me is a major keyword when we
33:27
talk about thought leadership or you’re
33:29
going to really not be able to deliver
33:32
on the commitment and if you don’t have
33:34
a knowledge base right constantly
33:36
putting your foot in your mouth trying
33:37
to be a Star Wars expert when you never
33:38
watch them I am NOT a Star Wars expert I
33:41
wasn’t speaking of you know I’m joking
33:46
yeah I know the subject matter first you
33:48
mentioned having 10 to 15 years of
33:50
experience you can’t expect yourself to
33:52
come in and be a leader on day one
33:54
and know the materials so I guess have
33:56
that down first
33:57
you know then be driven committed and
34:01
you know focused on that and then the
34:05
passion part I guess you’d mentioned you
34:07
have to really stick with this and
34:09
believe in it and want to do it over the
34:11
long term yeah like I like I was
34:12
mentioning to you know and honestly I
34:15
didn’t bring this up and I’ll make it
34:16
fast so when I was I always tell people
34:18
this because I people asked well how did
34:19
you get in this career you know and I
34:21
say it up it really goes back to when I
34:23
was six when I was six I clearly
34:26
remember watching a commercial and
34:27
saying and just thinking to myself like
34:30
that’s what I want to do and I think one
34:31
in my head what I was saying is I love
34:33
branding and I’m still in this branding
34:36
space so it’s something that I really do
34:38
like promoting others I like you know
34:41
creatively designing what that’s gonna
34:43
look like and so you know you got to
34:45
think about what it is that you really
34:47
you really do have a passion around and
34:50
you really have expertise and you can’t
34:52
you could stand up in front of a room
34:54
because I always get this every time I
34:56
do a keynote there’s always one guy
34:57
right who wants to bash you it’s like
35:00
everywhere you every day every time so
35:02
you’ve got to be a hundred percent
35:04
confident that if you got in a room and
35:06
you had somebody in the back room whose
35:08
intention was to get you out of that
35:10
room that you’d be able to be a hundred
35:12
percent confident so right that’s
35:14
something I can’t stress enough actually
35:16
there’s there’s nothing worse than a b2b
35:18
heckler yeah there’s so many of them I
35:20
don’t know who puts them there yeah I
35:22
think these are the people who wish they
35:24
were thought leaders want to be thought
35:26
leaders and they want to tear you down
35:27
when you’re when you’re up in front of a
35:29
nice they want us they want to school
35:31
you on what you should have done instead
35:32
of what you’re doing right how funny is
35:34
that don’t be that guy or girl people
35:37
say I’ll just say that guy will give the
35:39
girls pass on this one
35:40
you’re nice yeah I think it’s usually
35:44
guys it takes a certain kind of ego to
35:46
to be that person there’s generally guys
35:49
so what does it mean to be it to be a
35:54
thought leader well number one it means
35:57
you’re committed to educate and serve
35:59
others and we and so what that means is
36:02
you are committed to telling it like it
36:11
is and really helping to support your
36:14
community right so you have to stay on
36:16
top of things that are going on in your
36:18
industry I mean that’s extremely
36:20
important and if you also have
36:21
determined what that is right so is it
36:24
my job to know every single tweet the
36:27
Facebook is doing know is it but it
36:30
isn’t my job to understand what pitfalls
36:35
a marketer needs to avoid when it comes
36:38
to putting themselves out there in
36:40
social media or what to say or not to
36:42
say when they get on stage yeah that’s
36:44
my job right and I need to deliver that
36:46
and I need to deliver let deliver that
36:49
and it consistent ongoing way based on
36:52
what the needs are of my audience so it
36:56
means that you’re number one is is about
36:59
education knew more about the content
37:01
the internal content within the specific
37:03
subject matter yeah you have to have the
37:06
you have to have the content but you
37:07
also have to know how to educate others
37:09
right so I mean for me I look at people
37:12
I generally bring up you know some
37:13
examples but I would say like people
37:17
that say Richard Branson to me is a good
37:19
example right because so although he’s
37:22
not b2b is just a good example of this
37:24
right so he’s a brand yeah not only is a
37:27
brand what I was going to say is
37:28
actually that he’s an innovator and so
37:31
he’s a he’s a risk-taker but usually
37:33
risk takers are innovators and to me
37:35
I’ve actually seen him talk number of
37:36
times and so what I get from him is he’s
37:39
an innovator right and so when you
37:43
when he like I was actually reading
37:45
something he put out yesterday on which
37:49
I’m a big I’m very passionate about
37:50
saving the you know the ocean right when
37:53
I see plastic in the ocean I want to
37:55
kill somebody so so he was talking about
37:58
sustainability and about things that
38:02
companies are doing to you know like
38:06
like his company right so what they’re
38:07
doing now is they’re getting rid of all
38:08
the plastic straws on the air of their
38:11
airline like it’s just a simple example
38:13
right you know what I mean but he’s
38:15
talking about what they’re doing but
38:16
he’s educating people on the importance
38:18
of ocean conservation and like what’s
38:20
going on in that industry and how he’s
38:22
giving money and what you can do and you
38:23
know like different organizations that
38:25
are involved and what can you do in your
38:26
community right so he’s he’s passionate
38:30
about that he’s an innovator and he’s
38:33
educating his audience who actually
38:34
cares about that right so I think that
38:39
that’s you know just that’s kind of
38:43
number number one is to to be a thought
38:46
leader is to educate in the right way
38:48
where you have influence number two if
38:51
you want to really be the social brand
38:52
thought leader and I use this word quite
38:54
a bit is you really need to be real so
38:57
authentic I have I have a gentleman
38:59
that’s gonna be a speaker at a
39:00
conference I have coming up and he has
39:02
he has a show called real talk and I
39:04
love it because that’s what it’s it’s
39:06
about being real so you need to be
39:10
authentic like you were talking about
39:12
several times you can’t just come up and
39:14
say I’m gonna be a brand when you don’t
39:16
have you don’t have your creds right you
39:20
don’t have the knowledge you know I may
39:21
experience it on the audience you
39:22
haven’t failed 10 million times which I
39:25
could talk about for hours right so the
39:27
whole thing we’re committed to driven
39:29
that it takes time and energy yeah to
39:32
really grow on people and for them to
39:34
see you as this if you’re gonna try to
39:35
fake it it’s gonna get sniffed out
39:37
during that process and it’s gonna be a
39:39
waste of time basically that’s right I
39:41
mean well maybe the people they have
39:43
faked out easily you’ll win over but the
39:46
people that you really want to influence
39:48
won’t so you want to fake it go to the
39:51
b2c side one time
39:54
but yes so I think so when if you’re
39:58
really being a social brain in it and a
40:01
thought leader as a social brain in
40:03
whatever industry you’re in you have to
40:05
you have to commit to education and
40:07
therefore you have to be smart and you
40:09
have to know what’s going on now I am
40:10
NOT the person to tell you need to read
40:12
it read a million books I am NOT that
40:14
person right and I’m also not the person
40:16
that says I mean this podcast is amazing
40:18
but you have to listen to a million
40:20
podcasts either I am I am a little bit
40:23
different I’m a little bit more
40:24
old-school I get most of my knowledge
40:25
and most of my passion for what I do in
40:29
actually talking to others in my
40:31
industry so right I think that that’s
40:34
something that people miss out on quite
40:35
a bit so you can have those
40:38
conversations in social media you can
40:39
learn from others in social media but
40:41
also it’s equally as important to take
40:43
it offline so the conference’s that you
40:45
attend the networking events the
40:46
association’s that you’re involved with
40:47
these are perfect breeding grounds for
40:51
learning right and knowing what’s going
40:54
on so the more that you’re actually
40:57
involved with your community and your
40:59
industry and having conversations and
41:02
connecting with people this really can
41:05
help you to to become a thought leader
41:07
because you know what the people want
41:09
right it’s almost like it’s almost like
41:11
becoming a politician in a way you have
41:14
to know what the people want right and
41:16
you know you need to understand the
41:17
topics that are important and you need
41:19
to know where it is that you’re gonna
41:21
have the win right as a father so I
41:25
thought something down here yeah and I
41:27
just wrote down the return is your
41:29
passion
41:29
it seems part of the authentic in the
41:31
passion part and the deadline to success
41:34
and this is that you can’t be just
41:38
thinking oh I want to do this because
41:40
it’s it’s not an ROI thing if you look
41:42
at it and say I’m not gonna get a return
41:44
on this I can’t spend a 10,000 hours on
41:47
on LinkedIn I’m not gonna get a return
41:49
on that well then your your your return
41:51
has to be the interaction with people
41:52
it’s like saying I’m not gonna go to
41:54
this party because I don’t see the
41:55
profit at the end of it kind of it’s if
41:59
you’re not enjoying it and doing it
42:01
because you enjoy it it seems like it’s
42:03
gonna be very difficult you don’t enjoy
42:05
the subject matter to put in the time
42:06
and energy because
42:08
the ROI is likely never gonna be there
42:10
outside of your personal enjoyment well
42:11
it’s true I can I will tell you
42:13
something I love that you say that
42:15
because because it is I mean I’m the
42:18
person to talk about putting in a lot of
42:20
time and energy
42:21
maybe I mean I’m talking about my own
42:22
not my clients on my own projects my own
42:25
business is right so this is my third
42:27
business at home right so I get it and
42:30
so you got to be able to the only way
42:33
you can keep going is you have to have
42:35
the passion you’re not gonna keep going
42:38
if you hate and this goes for anything
42:40
right they if you hate what you’re doing
42:41
so and and if you are only focused on
42:45
the dollar sign and you’re not hitting
42:48
that dollar sign in a time even if it’s
42:50
a reasonable conservative timeframe
42:52
you’re gonna probably exit if that’s
42:55
your only goal and I’ve seen it happen
42:57
so many times I can’t even count it but
43:00
I was gonna say about it quickly about a
43:02
conversation I had with because as a
43:04
keynote speaker I know a lot of speakers
43:06
and I also helped speakers so a few
43:08
years ago I sat down with a gentleman I
43:10
really respect who’s an author he’s the
43:12
speaker he runs a few companies and we
43:14
were talking about the business of
43:15
speaking and I said to him I said you
43:19
know and he speaks quite a bit globally
43:23
and I asked him how much he made as a
43:25
speaker and it’s a side thing for him
43:27
and what other speakers should expect
43:29
and he said well you know I’m netting
43:32
maybe sixty a hundred thousand a year
43:34
just for speaking I don’t know if I
43:35
would and he said to me I don’t know if
43:37
I would tell anybody just to go up being
43:39
there to be a speaker because you know I
43:41
just do it and ice and I was like well
43:43
that’s good information however people
43:46
that really like me and I love speaking
43:49
i I really enjoy it and I really love
43:52
actually having an impact if if all the
43:55
presentations and speeches and trainings
43:57
that I’ve done or the ones I’m going to
43:59
do have been only about money I would
44:02
have done just a few alright so it just
44:06
doesn’t equate you know and so whatever
44:09
it is you decide if you say yeah you
44:11
know what people have told me I’m a
44:13
great speaker and furthermore I have
44:14
something to say that’s really important
44:17
then you’ll you will do that and good
44:19
things will happen right so it’s you
44:21
gotta kind of
44:22
pick your path look it’s like being a
44:25
comedian almost if you’re not willing to
44:27
go out on stage for nothing to get the
44:29
ball rolling for a long time
44:31
you’re never gonna build the audience
44:33
the skills what it takes and you you’ll
44:36
burn out yeah exactly if you don’t enjoy
44:41
the lifestyle so what about I mean when
44:44
I said you know what does it take to be
44:46
a thought leader kind of or what is a
44:50
thought leader what about the what is
44:53
part of okay if you’re if you’re doing
44:55
this stuff if you have the knowledge but
44:57
just straight-up followers I mean is
44:59
there a secret society that comes and
45:00
gives you a medallion when you get to a
45:02
certain point and says you are now a
45:03
thought leader or how does somebody know
45:06
if they if they have this yeah that’s
45:08
interesting so I say it’s interesting
45:10
because I can answer this in so many
45:12
ways but I’m gonna tell you what’s
45:14
important and then I’ll give you some
45:16
other information but what’s important I
45:18
want to go back to the goal because for
45:20
me I mean I’m a business owner and for
45:24
my clients and for my audiences there in
45:26
marketing which ties into sales at the
45:29
end of the day you have to move the
45:31
needle somewhere and you have to have
45:32
some type of results so that result
45:34
starts with that goal right so I talked
45:36
about goals so you could have I may
45:41
believe me I know people that have
45:42
millions and millions and millions of
45:44
followers that are still working 24/7
45:47
right so the number of followers is not
45:52
as important as you hitting those goals
45:54
right so the goal let’s say your goal is
45:59
to get a couple of investors and you
46:01
grow your audience to a certain size and
46:02
start getting some pickup and get some
46:03
investors then you’ve you’ve met your
46:06
objective right if your goal is to
46:08
become an influencer that’s going to get
46:11
you ken there’s lots of companies out
46:12
there that pay actually b2b influencers
46:16
and I personally am friends with a few
46:20
of them right I myself as an influencer
46:22
in a certain category that’s how we
46:24
found we were you know online and you
46:26
popped up for who knows what we’re
46:28
always in the b2b space and yeah oh
46:30
let’s get this person on the podcast she
46:32
knows her stuff this is a great subject
46:34
matter yeah so I mean it
46:36
again it goes back to what your goals
46:37
are so you know you could get a verified
46:40
badge on Twitter or you could get you
46:43
can’t get a LinkedIn influencer badge
46:46
because they only do that they they only
46:49
do that for 500 thought leaders a year
46:52
and the list is really slim and right
46:54
now they’re not even doing it so I would
46:55
say just that’s you don’t even go there
46:58
so LinkedIn is a secret society they’ll
47:01
just show up at your door one day yes
47:03
they’ve given me they’ve given me awards
47:05
right but they haven’t given me what I
47:07
what I thought I wanted but I don’t even
47:09
want it anymore
47:10
because what I want is I want to get to
47:12
my goals and that’s what I would say to
47:13
everyone that’s listening you know with
47:16
the lawyers that I work with right so
47:18
what are their goal is to become a
47:19
thought leader right so they want to get
47:21
out there and when they do their next
47:23
workshop they want more butts in the
47:26
seats that are the right people right
47:28
they want to win the next contract you
47:32
know these are the types of people that
47:33
I work with they’re not usually the
47:35
people that want to get a million
47:37
followers which is fine and we do that
47:39
work but really if you’re in b2b and
47:42
you’re in marketing generally what
47:45
you’re looking to do is you’re looking
47:47
to get more leads you’re getting you’re
47:50
looking to get more impressions and I
47:52
think most importantly those leads
47:55
impressions or whatever you even want to
47:56
call it they need to be qualified so you
48:00
know I think you know you’re a thought
48:02
leader when you when the people around
48:04
you like they always say right I call it
48:06
your social ecosystem right but when the
48:10
people around you are the people that
48:12
have influence and they’re qualified
48:14
people they can get you and your brand
48:16
to the next level whether that means
48:18
they’re gonna introduce you to your next
48:19
sale whether they are going to help you
48:23
to earn a higher salary whether they are
48:27
with which is a lot of my clients
48:28
getting you on a board position that you
48:31
want that’s when you know that you’re in
48:33
the right you’re in the right space for
48:37
where you want to go with your career
48:38
all right so basically when you start
48:40
seeing it drive conversions you’re not
48:42
just followers but actually creating
48:44
something something of value you can say
48:47
hey I think I might have
48:49
I might have got there to an extent yeah
48:51
and then I think the other the other I
48:54
know this is might be small but it’s
48:56
actually weirdly important I’ve had
48:58
people come up to me on the subway in
49:00
the street and these are like students
49:03
of universities imma do keynotes you not
49:05
I mean
49:05
or they’re people that have seen me at a
49:08
workshop or I’ve referred them to a job
49:10
or whatever and come up to me and said
49:13
oh you know thank you so much sure I
49:15
heard youhere I you know somebody
49:17
referred me to you or something
49:19
and that’s where I smile and I say like
49:21
oh well I’ve had any impact you know and
49:23
that to me that is thought leadership
49:26
it’s just about it’s about having impact
49:29
it’s about helping others and if you
49:31
think that way you actually are just
49:33
much more successful anyway yes if you
49:35
write a book and you can move him I saw
49:36
and handily at an event and yeah it was
49:39
just like what’s this giant line for oh
49:41
she has a book and these people are just
49:42
signing up to get her to buy the book
49:44
and get her to get her to sign it
49:46
because she has developed such a
49:48
following and such a thought leadership
49:50
in that in a space so when it comes to
49:54
when you’re looking somebody’s looking
49:56
to build this niche versus general what
50:01
are your thoughts there somebody wants
50:03
to you know in any particular area how
50:05
niche should they look to go I guess I’d
50:06
say oh just give you a quick example
50:08
so Michael one of my favorite clients
50:12
I’m gonna plug her because I love her
50:13
and anyone was a lot yes so no she’s the
50:16
best and she’s gonna be a speaker at my
50:18
conference on that so her name is Rachel
50:20
Braun Cheryl and she she helped raise
50:25
something like five million dollars for
50:27
a and I can say it now but when I first
50:29
started working with her I couldn’t even
50:31
talk about it but a female sexual health
50:33
product many years ago and so she has
50:39
since developed a consultancy and she
50:42
consults for many companies in the
50:45
health care space particularly in female
50:47
health around growing products in that
50:49
space and helping product sell more when
50:52
they’re kind of falling off the shelves
50:53
that type of thing and he came to me
50:56
because she said like me I want to
51:00
really have impact
51:01
and she also wants to become she wants
51:03
to become a paid speaker right so since
51:05
I’ve been working with her firm kind of
51:06
many years now um you know I’ve gotten
51:09
her speak all over the country we ghost
51:11
wrote and published her book she’s doing
51:13
a book signing tour actually as we speak
51:15
she’s doing a lot but the point is is
51:17
that she has created honestly a hardcore
51:20
loyal loyal loyal audience and fan base
51:24
where she now presents as a paid speaker
51:27
where people buy her books I mean I was
51:29
at her book signing at Barnes & Noble
51:31
last week all around female sexual
51:33
health and how niche is that right you
51:36
know she’s she’s sue she’s super
51:39
intelligent she’s amazing but she’s kind
51:41
of leading a revolution around helping
51:44
entrepreneurs the in that space
51:46
understand how they can raise money how
51:48
they can build businesses what they need
51:49
to do like you know and she’s really
51:51
owning it oh I was thinking when you
51:54
said how niche is that I was thinking
51:55
well on the consumer side it’s over half
51:57
the world that’s uh you know three
51:59
billion plus people but I guess on the
52:01
on the b2b side yeah you’re getting
52:03
pretty niche enough right and my my
52:05
point is you know generally it is much
52:09
more about first of all it’s about the
52:12
person and and and it’s about the niche
52:17
that they own so another example I give
52:19
you is a senior level executive that’s
52:22
been my client for quite a while at a
52:23
major major company and you know his
52:26
goals were to get on more boards and to
52:29
raise his position at this company and
52:32
so you know his thought leadership
52:35
really had to do more with his his skill
52:39
set and how he built teams and how he
52:43
drove profitability and he’s a senior
52:45
level marketer right rather than the
52:48
fact that he’s developed business units
52:52
for several different services and
52:55
products right so we didn’t really
52:56
thought it focus on the service or
52:58
product it was more about his skill set
53:01
but either way it’s about the focus
53:04
around that person and what do they want
53:06
to own so I would say you know when I do
53:08
my keynote I talk about this niche and
53:10
the niche is actually very important
53:12
there’s a whole exercise on it yeah so
53:15
that the phrase that I wrote down I
53:16
think you basically said there was the
53:19
niches just niche enough to own it as as
53:22
as niche as you can get or as general as
53:24
you can get as long as it’s focused
53:26
enough that you can own that space kind
53:28
of as a as a name yeah can you give
53:31
something some examples of some of these
53:33
I mean you’ve thrown some out there
53:34
already but can you give some some
53:36
specifics on and you know people who’ve
53:39
had success through through thought
53:41
leadership becoming thought leaders
53:43
whether it’s a individual person success
53:46
or a product success whatnot yeah sure
53:48
so I’m just I don’t know if I should be
53:51
giving you big names or more importantly
53:53
I can just give you from my client base
53:55
yeah whatever you want that’s not
53:57
covered by NDA I guess I’d say no no
54:00
it’s fine it’s just you know I’m not
54:01
gonna give you big names like Richard
54:03
Branson I’ve never worked with you know
54:05
I’d rather talk to you about you didn’t
54:06
have to say that part then everybody
54:07
just think you work with them so no so I
54:14
would say that I’m gonna give you some
54:16
stories of clients because that’s where
54:18
I you know I’ve been involved so there’s
54:21
a company called interactive edge and
54:23
they provide custom ready presentation
54:27
software for CP their b2b but they they
54:31
provide this this presentation software
54:33
for CPG manufacturers that want to sell
54:37
in to grocery stores right so basically
54:40
what they’re they’re taking like this
54:41
mass of you know when you go shopping
54:43
right so you checkout and they’re
54:45
collecting all your data right so would
54:46
you buy a must a cost of a bar right so
54:48
all of that data which is Arbitron
54:50
driven its massive right and so what
54:53
they do is they take that big data and
54:55
they you know kind of distill it down to
54:59
presentation ready data that says to I
55:03
don’t know where we’re really like
55:04
Kroger’s or I don’t know Publix it
55:06
doesn’t matter they when I start working
55:09
with them they’re like a three million
55:10
dollar business so a small company right
55:12
and so they take this present you know
55:16
this this software and they create
55:17
presentations that they can give to
55:19
companies that sell their you know their
55:22
products in these stores so so they came
55:25
to me because there’s small company and
55:28
nothing was working I just put it to you
55:30
that way their digital marketing their
55:32
digital marketing wasn’t working so I
55:34
did an exhaustive digital marketing
55:35
strategy my team we you know redeveloped
55:38
their website on their branding but we
55:40
did all that work but what really helped
55:42
them was I helped to position their CEO
55:45
as a thought leader and that’s so in the
55:48
course of working with him individually
55:51
he was I was able to get him on little
55:55
things that became very important for
55:57
his company like it get building him you
56:00
know building him up as a speaker right
56:03
so doing things like doing like a video
56:06
series with him writing a you know
56:08
proper bio for him then defining where
56:12
he should be a speaker in terms of again
56:14
going back to what we’re talking about
56:16
delivering his knowledge around the
56:18
subject so I got him you know on
56:20
webinars and podcasts related to the
56:22
industry a couple of organizations like
56:24
CPG net which is a category net which is
56:28
a an association that then has a
56:31
conference and they have a magazine and
56:33
a few of associations like that he ended
56:35
up becoming a speaker you know he ended
56:37
up being a weekly contributor to a blog
56:40
on one of their websites you know so is
56:42
that type of work and so because I was
56:45
able to position him as a thought leader
56:47
and then obviously develop his social
56:50
media particularly around LinkedIn he
56:53
was able to then go out there and his
56:55
value first he would you know he was
56:58
able to be visible right and raise his
57:01
value to the point where large CPG
57:04
companies that they traditionally had
57:05
not been working with they were able to
57:07
go out and set up meetings with them and
57:09
so in the time that I was working with
57:11
them they landed Nestle as a client you
57:13
know right so suddenly they had a
57:15
recognizable brand that was their CEO a
57:18
hundred percent you know and that’s a
57:20
true b2b company with a very complex
57:23
product and a lot of times companies
57:26
didn’t get it so instead they were able
57:29
to listen and see him out there’s a
57:31
thought leader in places where they were
57:33
and that’s really important to
57:35
understand so the product was kind of
57:37
this interesting when this was a subject
57:39
matter on
57:40
on a recent podcast that we did – and it
57:43
happened to be that the guy was really
57:45
focused in CPG area there was on
57:47
marketing boring products and it was
57:49
created community separate and I kind of
57:51
the thought leadership is that it’s
57:53
creating a community but around a
57:54
specific person rather than a product
57:56
because the product itself is difficult
57:58
to sell for one reason or another so I
58:01
think the thought leadership thing it
58:02
sounds like that’s an example
